A Bio Genesis

@kellyjay said
Any TV commercial can be called propaganda, a radio spot attempting to put into our head buy this product or that, vote for me not them. If you are being presented something to make you lean any specific way that can be called propaganda, the thing you need to look at is it misleading, not that it is bias. Truth if it is being pointed too would also be called bias and mislea ...[text shortened]... looked at the person is, you closed your eyes, stuck fingers in your ears before the lecture began.

It is not offensive. But it is incorrect to characterize the origin of life debate as he did. You can agree with the science and believe in God at the same time. Pond scum are children of God too.

@wildgrass said
It is not offensive. But it is incorrect to characterize the origin of life debate as he did. You can agree with the science and believe in God at the same time. Pond scum are children of God too.

How did he incorrectly characterize the origin debate, he was pointing out depending on how you saw it beginning, you were going to view differently. You disagree with that, you think if it was formed by natural processes you are going to agree with those that views it was a created universe by a divine event?

You can say pond scum are children of God too if you like, those that disagree with you are not going to be to many from the theist side of the debate. A guided process is simply a slower version of God's creation, guided by design. You cannot have children of God without God, you cannot have an unguided process with someone guiding it.

@kellyjay said
How did he incorrectly characterize the origin debate, he was pointing out depending on how you saw it beginning, you were going to view differently. You disagree with that, you think if it was formed by natural processes you are going to agree with those that views it was a created universe by a divine event?

You can say pond scum are children of God too if you like, tho ...[text shortened]... annot have children of God without God, you cannot have an unguided process with someone guiding it.

Who created the pond scum, from the theist point of view?

In my experience, pious people (the Pope included) generally believe that while trees were created, full size trees were not 'planted' by God when he created them. "Let the Earth bring forth the grass" is evolution, a natural process.

That's kind of besides the point here though. If you're Peltzer, and you're giving a scientific lecture about chemical origins of life, non-natural processes should not enter the equation. Untestable, unfalsifiable. There is no scenario in which non-natural origins of life can be ruled out as a possibility using the scientific method. Therefore, scientifically, you can hold both views (pond scum and child of God) simultaneously. From a theist perspective maybe not, but again, I know several very smart people that do.

@wildgrass said
Who created the pond scum, from the theist point of view?

In my experience, pious people (the Pope included) generally believe that while trees were created, full size trees were not 'planted' by God when he created them. "Let the Earth bring forth the grass" is evolution, a natural process.

That's kind of besides the point here though. If you're Peltzer, and you're g ...[text shortened]... taneously. From a theist perspective maybe not, but again, I know several very smart people that do.

And from that POV if new science proves GODIDIT, we will have to run with it whether or not it totally throws all we thought we knew into the trash.
Personally I don't think that will ever happen but if it does we will run with it and polish up our crosses.....

@wildgrass said
Who created the pond scum, from the theist point of view?

In my experience, pious people (the Pope included) generally believe that while trees were created, full size trees were not 'planted' by God when he created them. "Let the Earth bring forth the grass" is evolution, a natural process.

That's kind of besides the point here though. If you're Peltzer, and you're g ...[text shortened]... taneously. From a theist perspective maybe not, but again, I know several very smart people that do.

Your talking to the wrong guy, I'm not an ID believer in that I think evolution is how God brought about life, I'm a creationist I don't believe God needed millions of years to create life.

If I'm wrong God created the pond and the scum, and used it to mold life by acts purposeful design, making sure these chemicals mixed with those, and did it in the right places, at the right times, and so on thereby through time altered life until we see the variety today. Then you can say both evolution (a guided process) God did it, and whatever else you want.

Beyond that if you want to discuss the lecture watch it, or bring your own lecture to the site and I'll discuss that with you after I watch it, unlike you I'm not paranoid I may see or hear something I disagree with, since you cannot bring yourself to watch something now for what, how many weeks?

@sonhouse said
And from that POV if new science proves GODIDIT, we will have to run with it whether or not it totally throws all we thought we knew into the trash.
Personally I don't think that will ever happen but if it does we will run with it and polish up our crosses.....

Is that what scares you, you cannot tolerate even a remote possibility that God could be real, so you resist what science might say that could introduce that possibility? If that is true you are not going on about science's purity, but your ideology over truth if truth might show you in error.

If science does show what is required is something outside of the universe to create the universe, to create life. Would you reject it anyway?

@kellyjay said
I'm not an ID believer in that I think evolution is how God brought about life,

Evolution theory isn't a theory of how life began.

@humy said
Evolution theory isn't a theory of how life began.

Abiogenesis or creation, evolution is after life has started the process of continuing and advancing over time to more complex life.

@humy said
Evolution theory isn't a theory of how life began.

You shouldn't take half a statement and make it seem like something is being implied that isn't.

@kellyjay said
Is that what scares you, you cannot tolerate even a remote possibility that God could be real, so you resist what science might say that could introduce that possibility? If that is true you are not going on about science's purity, but your ideology over truth if truth might show you in error.

If science does show what is required is something outside of the universe to create the universe, to create life. Would you reject it anyway?

You are just talking to hear your head rattle as my mom used to say. You have no idea what I can tolerate or cannot tolerate. I just said if science proved GODIDIT, we will have to run with it.
So far that is not the case. You ONLY have ideology, you CERTAINLY don't have 'truth', you only have faith in what you believe. That is decidedly NOT truth.

@sonhouse said
You are just talking to hear your head rattle as my mom used to say. You have no idea what I can tolerate or cannot tolerate. I just said if science proved GODIDIT, we will have to run with it.
So far that is not the case. You ONLY have ideology, you CERTAINLY don't have 'truth', you only have faith in what you believe. That is decidedly NOT truth.

I read your posts.

@kellyjay said
I read your posts.

Meaning, I assume, 'I hear you' or if you are implying I don't read yours, I do.

@sonhouse said
Meaning, I assume, 'I hear you' or if you are implying I don't read yours, I do.

No, that was not what I was implying, but your anti-god stance is quite clear and historic.

@kellyjay said
No, that was not what I was implying, but your anti-god stance is quite clear and historic.

Hardly 'anti' god. Just don't think if there is a god, it is hands off as far as humans go. The evidence for that is the way the world is going now.
If we assume GODDIDIT and made the universe, Earth and life here, it would not, it seems to me want to see the jewel of our planet despoiled the way it is now.
Unless, that is, this god sees what is going on and knows that will hasten our extinction as a species and Earth can more or less recover from our haste to ruin it.
All you want is for us to 'believe' and everything will turn out ok.
But there are too many holes in the biblical plot line so humans telling me there is a god, I'll work that out for myself.
If a god wants to come down, whack me on the head with a 2X4 to get my attention, saying, Don, This is how it is.....
That would do it for me. Humans telling me, TRUST US, THE LORD LOVES US, not gonna happen.
I go by what we see around us in the world and how corrupt we are in the shepherding of the planet. Right now we are using up more than 50% of planetary resource right now. It's going to be hell on Earth in another 200 odd years when the population might be jammed up to 30 or more billion and we are using up 100% of the resources then and REALLY fukking up the planet.
At some point it has to all come tumbling down, not by any hand of god but by our own corporate greed.

@sonhouse said
Hardly 'anti' god. Just don't think if there is a god, it is hands off as far as humans go. The evidence for that is the way the world is going now.
If we assume GODDIDIT and made the universe, Earth and life here, it would not, it seems to me want to see the jewel of our planet despoiled the way it is now.
Unless, that is, this god sees what is going on and knows that wil ...[text shortened]... some point it has to all come tumbling down, not by any hand of god but by our own corporate greed.

I think God is very hands on, but we are so broken and filled with ourselves we keep breaking God's laws and going against His ways that we destroy ourselves in His universe. God's laws on behavior are no different than the rest of the laws of the universe, you can attempt to break them, but in the end we are the one's getting broken. If we are not loving each other, we are doing something else and it breaks us, no different than when we attempt to break gravity by jumping off a building, we jump then we lay broken on the ground.

There are no holes in the Biblical plot, what God intended is being done, we were created to be made in His image, and that is what He is doing. Preparing a people so we can be just what He wanted. It started in Genesis and it ends in Revelation where this universe is rid of evil and wickedness eternally.

Humans can be ugly myself included, its better to go to the source. I don't think this planet has that long to go before the end comes, and after that it gets made over.