- Joined
- 10 Dec 06
- Moves
- 8528
06 Oct 08
Originally posted by Eladarthat was the message i was trying to convey.
If by 'why' you mean arrive at a perfect understanding of nature, then I agree with you. But I don't see Science as a search for ultimate truth, merely a better understading of how the world around us opperates.
06 Oct 08
Originally posted by EladarWell it looks like science is well on its way to explaining the whole universe now, going way beyond the 'Big bang' theory. Now it is the 'big bounce' where a maximum but not infinite density is reached and gravity reverses itself and becomes repulsive which gives rise to our new universe which came from an even older one, perhaps doing this an infinite # of times, perhaps not. But it seems, much to your dismay I assume, science can actually answer the big questions.
If by 'why' you mean arrive at a perfect understanding of nature, then I agree with you. But I don't see Science as a search for ultimate truth, merely a better understading of how the world around us opperates.
I doubt if you are interested in actually reading the piece but on the odd chance I am wrong, you should read this month's issue of Scientific American, October 2008, "Following the Bouncing Universe".
06 Oct 08
Now it is the 'big bounce' where a maximum but not infinite density is reached and gravity reverses itself and becomes repulsive which gives rise to our new universe which came from an even older one, perhaps doing this an infinite # of times, perhaps not.
Answer this riddle: How did the universe begin? Everything we observe has a beginning and an end. I would say that from a naturalistic point of view one must come to the conclusion that everything has a beginning and an end.
Where did the initial energy or matter or whatever it is that this Universe comes from come into being? When was the first Big Bang? How did it come into being?
06 Oct 08
1 edit
Originally posted by EladarAnd of course you know the answer to that one. Right now we are in the process of figuring it all out and I am showing you the latest research on the subject. A hundred years on and we may have much better answers, but for right now some of the problems of the theory of the Big Bang have been answered. I assume you will not read the article for yourself, being so sure of your own answers you don't need to read the devil's drivel. As for 'everything has a beginning and an end'. that is one of the points of the Big Bounce theory, it does't. It just has a recurring crunch and expansion and contraction and a new crunch and expansion, etc. Of course no answer that doesn't refer to a god would never be good enough for you.
[b]Now it is the 'big bounce' where a maximum but not infinite density is reached and gravity reverses itself and becomes repulsive which gives rise to our new universe which came from an even older one, perhaps doing this an infinite # of times, perhaps not.
Answer this riddle: How did the universe begin? Everything we observe has a beginning and an ...[text shortened]... niverse comes from come into being? When was the first Big Bang? How did it come into being?[/b]
06 Oct 08
1 edit
Right now we are in the process of figuring it all out and I am showing you the latest research on the subject.
Figuring out how the very basic building blocks came into existance? Homey don't think so.
A moment when nothing exists, then something is just there doesn't make sense. There is no possible natural explanation for such a thing.
06 Oct 08
2 edits
Originally posted by EladarWho are you answering, eladar?
Right now we are in the process of figuring it all out and I am showing you the latest research on the subject.
Figuring out how the very basic building blocks came into existance? Homey don't think so.
A moment when nothing exists, then something is just there doesn't make sense. There is no possible natural explanation for such a thing.
Everyone here is using "replay & quote" link, you aren't. Why?
06 Oct 08
Originally posted by EladarSome people believe that there was never such a moment. Some believe
A moment when nothing exists, then something is just there doesn't make sense. There is no possible natural explanation for such a thing.
that there was always something. Some call it God, some call it matter.
That is, your belief system is constructed on the same basic assumption:
X has always existed. For you, 'X' is God. For others 'X' is the matter/energy
contained in the known universe.
Both arguments rest on equally unprovable supposition.
Nemesio
06 Oct 08
Originally posted by NemesioOne would have to go beyond a naturalistic point of view to believe that the Universe did not have a beginning.
Some people believe that there was never such a moment. Some believe
that there was always something. Some call it God, some call it matter.
That is, your belief system is constructed on the same basic assumption:
X has always existed. For you, 'X' is God. For others 'X' is the matter/energy
contained in the known universe.
Both arguments rest on equally unprovable supposition.
Nemesio
By the way, the physical creation and God are not the same thing. You seem to be saying they are. Matter does not equal God, at least from my point of view.
06 Oct 08
Originally posted by EladarHold on. I didn't say that the universe didn't have a beginning. We know
One would have to go beyond a naturalistic point of view to believe that the Universe did not have a beginning.
that it did. I said 'the energy/matter in the universe.' It's an axiom in
science that energy/matter can neither be created nor destroyed. So, it's
perfectly naturalistic to claim that the matter/energy that comprises the
universe has always existed. As I said, some people think that the Big
Bang could be part of a cycle, which will be followed by a 'Big Collapse' before
repeating.
Nemesio
06 Oct 08
Originally posted by EladarWhat's the problem? Do you have a problem with the circularity of day/night,
So what if it is assumed that there was never a beginning to existance. It just goes to show the problem here. Science's position is completely circular.
or the seasons? Why would you have a problem with the circularity of the
universe?
Nemesio