08 Aug 09
Originally posted by sonhouseSounds like a sound business plan!
In theory there is. If, a kinda big if, if you had a rope say, 1 billion light years long and a big spindle some of it is wrapped round and huge weights on both ends, one on the end of the rope and the other on the spindle, you get free energy from the expansion of the universe, the two weights would be pulled apart by this expansion, thereby unrolling the ...[text shortened]... energy. Of course the billion long rope thingy is a tad problematic but the theory is correct.
08 Aug 09
2 edits
Zero point energy (aka vacuum energy) is a real thing, and has been done to death in science fiction. Outside of Stargate though, (ZPMs), I don't think there has been a serious attempt to harness it for power, because we really have no idea how to even start to go about it. Engineers aren't blind to a big power source or trained against it (actually I have no idea how much physics engineers generally get, but it certainly isn't deliberately "hidden" from them. Just it is really complicated and tough. I'd love to see the proposed mechanism from the guys who "enhanced" sound with what was basically magical thinking. Anyway, there is energy there, but using it is still science fiction. People think about it all the time, but not as a serious power-source until we have space ships; probably.
And once we're there, we should build a giant universal expansion brake instead!
08 Aug 09
Originally posted by FrogspondenceSo when do we start on the rope?
Zero point energy (aka vacuum energy) is a real thing, and has been done to death in science fiction. Outside of Stargate though, (ZPMs), I don't think there has been a serious attempt to harness it for power, because we really have no idea how to even start to go about it. Engineers aren't blind to a big power source or trained against it (actually ...[text shortened]... ly.
And once we're there, we should build a giant universal expansion brake instead!
08 Aug 09
Originally posted by FrogspondenceI have this sneaky feeling we will run through chemical energy, then fission, then fusion, then anti-matter before we ever get to vacuum energy.
Zero point energy (aka vacuum energy) is a real thing, and has been done to death in science fiction. Outside of Stargate though, (ZPMs), I don't think there has been a serious attempt to harness it for power, because we really have no idea how to even start to go about it. Engineers aren't blind to a big power source or trained against it (actually ...[text shortened]... it all the time, but not as a serious power-source until we have space ships; probably.
It turns out actually, that the design and theory phase is further along for anti-matter rockets than for fusion.
A recent piece in Scientific American suggests there may be a way to harvest relatively large amounts of anti-matter in Cis-lunar space with a wire cage affair several hundred meters across (think chicken wire) spherical shape and charged to attract anti-protons, so a positive charge of several hundred million volts and then further capturing mechanisms inside that eventually trapping anti-protons in a magnetic trap.
It is said the universe has one part in ten billion of anti-matter so for every ten billion tons of our stuff, there would be one ton of anti-matter and a lot of it floating through near space.
Space is so thin that anti-matter can go long distances without touching normal matter so there may be plenty of it to be harvested in space.
That kind of thing is a lot closer to reality than any kind of vacuum energy for sure, and will probably remain so for the next several hundred years if not longer, assuming we maintain a scientific civilization for that long, which is in some doubt I think.
08 Aug 09
Originally posted by sonhouseMy question on the anti matter would be this: Since we have sent space probes to distances past pluto, how come it hasn't come across enough anti matter to disable it? If it hasn't come across enough to disable it then how do we possibly scoop up enough of it to make it usefull?
I have this sneaky feeling we will run through chemical energy, then fission, then fusion, then anti-matter before we ever get to vacuum energy.
It turns out actually, that the design and theory phase is further along for anti-matter rockets than for fusion.
A recent piece in Scientific American suggests there may be a way to harvest relatively large amo ...[text shortened]... r, assuming we maintain a scientific civilization for that long, which is in some doubt I think.
09 Aug 09
Originally posted by joe beyserThe answer to that question, why hasn't probes been disabled? Anti-stuff is spread extremely thin, remember, one part in 10 billion. So that means that in space, that which is encountered is already almost nil, thin enough for ordinary matter to not have made much impact on spacecraft already out there, for instance, the voyagers, now around 9 or 10 billion miles out and still functioning. If there was going to be damage, it would be ordinary matter ten billion times more common than anti-matter that would destroy craft and such damage has happened.
My question on the anti matter would be this: Since we have sent space probes to distances past pluto, how come it hasn't come across enough anti matter to disable it? If it hasn't come across enough to disable it then how do we possibly scoop up enough of it to make it usefull?
The method proposed is a very large, like a kilometer in diameter, sphere of basically chicken wire charged up to several hundred million volts positive which will attract anti-protons which have the opposite electrical charge to regular protons which will be rejected by the field so it will selectively seek out anti-protons. Now it will also reject neutrons which don't feel the electric field but it will attract electrons which have a native negative charge but they can be selectively rejected based on the mass difference between protons and electrons, a thousand to one mass difference, so anti-protons can be concentrated from that very low density to be captured in a magnetic trap.
09 Aug 09
Originally posted by sonhouseWould this trap still work at extemely high speed or would they have to orbit it around the earth until enough was collected for a round trip?
The answer to that question, why hasn't probes been disabled? Anti-stuff is spread extremely thin, remember, one part in 10 billion. So that means that in space, that which is encountered is already almost nil, thin enough for ordinary matter to not have made much impact on spacecraft already out there, for instance, the voyagers, now around 9 or 10 billion ...[text shortened]... anti-protons can be concentrated from that very low density to be captured in a magnetic trap.
09 Aug 09
Originally posted by joe beyserFrom what I gather, it would just be in orbit or somewhere between here and the moon, maybe in one of the L5, L3 spots maybe. It doesn't have to be going fast, but even if it is in an orbit around the earth, there are compound velocities that are around 18 miles per second or 30 Kilometers per second (the velocity of the Earth around the sun) give or take.
Would this trap still work at extemely high speed or would they have to orbit it around the earth until enough was collected for a round trip?
To my mind it is the only really viable option for interstellar journeys, assuming the concept is workable.
09 Aug 09
Originally posted by sonhouseSo should I start work with the rope in case it isn't feasible?
From what I gather, it would just be in orbit or somewhere between here and the moon, maybe in one of the L5, L3 spots maybe. It doesn't have to be going fast, but even if it is in an orbit around the earth, there are compound velocities that are around 18 miles per second or 30 Kilometers per second (the velocity of the Earth around the sun) give or take. ...[text shortened]... t is the only really viable option for interstellar journeys, assuming the concept is workable.
14 Aug 09
1 edit
Originally posted by joe beyserYeah, that's the ticket! Plan ahead! Now you have to figure out what the strength of said rope needs to be, lets suppose the rope is a long single crystal nanotube and weighs in at one milligram per kilometer. How much would 1 billion ly of the stuff mass?
So should I start work with the rope in case it isn't feasible?
14 Aug 09
Originally posted by sonhouseLooks like we better make antimatter work then. Failure is not an option.🙂
Yeah, that's the ticket! Plan ahead! Now you have to figure out what the strength of said rope needs to be, lets suppose the rope is a long single crystal nanotube and weighs in at one milligram per kilometer. How much would 1 billion ly of the stuff mass?