25 Jan 09
Originally posted by Thequ1ckBy this logic heterosexuality is wrong because some women get raped by heterosexual men.
Listen ANDREW. I have to spend the rest of my life without friends or cause
because some little homosexual wanted me to know what it felt like when I'm
passed out from drink. It was the first sexual experience of my life, shortly after
my father left me and I didn't take too it welll.
So why don't you go on and preach to me how inocculous it is, I'm a ...[text shortened]... particular persons fault but
I will not be told that homosexuals are innocent. Not at all.
25 Jan 09
Originally posted by Thequ1ckThe paper you cite analyses a very small cohort (only 10 families) and presents no molecular data to support your claim of an epigenetic origin for homosexuality in men. This is in contrast to the relatively large sample numbers in the Italian studies.
I can find no evidence to support your statements. However, it can
be shown that homosexual or transgender men DO have a greater
chance of having a maternal aunt.
The disparate ratio of maternal aunts to uncles in male transsexuals
and homosexual men has been hypothesised to be linked to genomic
imprinting.
(Green and Young, 2000);
http://www.helen ...[text shortened]... he last part of the
final paragraph of diodorus's post serves to compel this line of thought.
26 Jan 09
The problem with the discussion is that there is way too much focus on the activities carried out by some homosexuals and not enough focus on whether or not someone professing to be homosexual is sexually attracted to the same sex more than the opposite sex and whether such attraction is by choice, due to environment or due to genetics.
Why don't we consider the case of a homosexual adult male who has never had sexual relations with anyone.
26 Jan 09
1 edit
Originally posted by twhitehead…and whether such attraction is BY CHOICE , due to environment or due to genetics..…
The problem with the discussion is that there is way too much focus on the activities carried out by some homosexuals and not enough focus on whether or not someone professing to be homosexual is sexually attracted to the same sex more than the opposite sex and whether such attraction is by choice, due to environment or due to genetics.
Why don't we consider the case of a homosexual adult male who has never had sexual relations with anyone.
“BY CHOICE”? I know that some people actually say it is “by choice” but I always think this is such an absurd suggestion that it is really a non-starter as a scientific hypothesis.
I would like to ask people that claim that it is “by choice” if they “chose” to be attracted to the opposite sex.
And I would like to ask them:
did I “choose” my heterosexuality? -and, if so, why was I inexplicably and absurdly totally unaware of this fact!!!?
And exactly how can a person “choose” to be a homosexual? -I mean, can a man just suddenly and inexplicably think to himself “I know, why don’t I choose to be a homosexual? -yes! I am committed!” -so from this moment on I will be sexually attracted to other men” and then, amazingly, he finds themselves attracted to men!!!
-if so, how is it that I cannot perform this amazing mental feat?
26 Jan 09
Originally posted by Andrew HamiltonI personally do not think homosexuality is by choice and is probably determined very early on in a persons life either by genetics or the environment (hormonal influences in the womb possibly).
“BY CHOICE”? I know that some people actually say it is “by choice” but I always think this is such an absurd suggestion that it is really a non-starter as a scientific hypothesis.
I would like to ask people that claim that it is “by choice” if they “chose” to be attracted to the opposite sex.
And I would like to ask them:
did [b]I “cho ...[text shortened]... hemselves attracted to men!!!
-if so, how is it that I cannot perform this amazing mental feat?[/b]
However, I do know that love and attraction are very complex things and can to a very large degree be influenced by experience and even by choice.
I think it is not unusual for people to become more attracted to someone they know well over time or even to become attracted to people that are similar to someone they have fallen in love with.
What I think would be interesting to ask would be:
1. Are you sexually attracted to all women of all ages?
2. Can you change your attraction, or does it change over time?
3. If you find that you are not attracted to women with certain characteristics, do you think that is a. genetic, b. environment, c. choice?
26 Jan 09
2 edits
Originally posted by twhitehead…1. Are you sexually attracted to all women of all ages? ..…
I personally do not think homosexuality is by choice and is probably determined very early on in a persons life either by genetics or the environment (hormonal influences in the womb possibly).
However, I do know that love and attraction are very complex things and can to a very large degree be influenced by experience and even by choice.
I think it i ...[text shortened]... women with certain characteristics, do you think that is a. genetic, b. environment, c. choice?
No -I certainly wouldn’t be attracted to a 100 year old no matter how desperate I was.
….2. Can you change your attraction, or does it change over time? ….
I have never personally experienced it change over time although that doesn’t mean it couldn’t.
But what I am certain of is that I couldn’t consciously and deliberately make it change! -because I don’t see how.
….3. If you find that you are not attracted to women with certain characteristics, do you think that is a. genetic, b. environment, c. choice?.…
I am honestly not sure if it is genetic or environmental although I am guessing here it may be environmental -BUT, I AM sure that it is definitely NOT by choice! -to find what I find attractive, I first have to look and then wait to see how I inevitably respond in feeling inside -no “choosing” there! -how I respond in feeling to a stimulus is beyond my conscious control -I just either find a woman physically attractive or I don’t -no “choosing” -this is why I find the whole idea of people “choosing” their sexuality absurd. Could I “choose” to lust after a farm pig?
26 Jan 09
Originally posted by Andrew HamiltonI generally agree with you.
I am honestly not sure if it is genetic or environmental although I am guessing here it may be environmental -BUT, I AM sure that it is definitely NOT by choice! -to find what I find attractive, I first have to look and then wait to see how I inevitably respond in feeling inside -no “choosing” there! -how I respond in feeling to a stimulus is beyond ...[text shortened]... ole idea of people “choosing” their sexuality absurd. Could I “choose” to lust after a farm pig?
The next question is, are child molesters attracted to children sexually and what causes the attraction? (Whatever the case I do think they are wrong to act on such an attraction, I am merely exploring the question).
26 Jan 09
Originally posted by twhitehead…The next question is, are child molesters attracted to children sexually and what causes the attraction? ..…
I generally agree with you.
The next question is, are child molesters attracted to children sexually and what causes the attraction? (Whatever the case I do think they are wrong to act on such an attraction, I am merely exploring the question).
I have no idea. perhaps something went wrong with their sexual development at a young age? -I am only speculating here. I don’t know if there has been any proper non-biased non-emotional serious scientific study into the causes of it -but I don’t think even THEY consciously “choose” to WANT to do that (this does not mean I approve of what they do in any way -I think anyone who wants to do that should seriously seek urgent help before it is too late)
26 Jan 09
Originally posted by twhiteheadPerhaps this is a "mistake" in evolution, where selecting for youthful characteristics has gone too far. But I'm just guessing here.
I generally agree with you.
The next question is, are child molesters attracted to children sexually and what causes the attraction? (Whatever the case I do think they are wrong to act on such an attraction, I am merely exploring the question).
26 Jan 09
1 edit
Originally posted by KazetNagorra…Perhaps this is a "mistake" in evolution, where selecting for youthful characteristics has gone too far...…
Perhaps this is a "mistake" in evolution, where selecting for youthful characteristics has gone too far. But I'm just guessing here.
-a perfectly reasonable hypothesis!
Perhaps the mental mechanism for determining “how youthful” the youthful characteristics should be in sexual attraction is a very crude sloppy one and is easily made to go to far to the “youthful extreme” -if so, this would be yet another example of one of “evolution’s blunders” (such as the human retina having its blood vessels in front of it instead of behind it etc)
Natural selection keeps selecting against it but the ‘defect’ just keeps coming up afresh so often that it is a continuous “war without end” for evolution and with heavy casualties.
26 Jan 09
1 edit
Originally posted by epiphinehasIf you start by defining the homosexual inclination as an "anomaly" ... I'm afraid you already lost your case.
I'd like to discuss what evidence there is in support of homosexuality as a biologically and/or environmentally (prenatal) determined anomaly.
_________
I know of two recent articles of import.
(1) http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/jun/16/neuroscience.psychology
(2) http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/science/2008/December/Males-of-All-S ...[text shortened]... hape of the brain and the other with the effect pollution may have on the masculinity of males.