New battery for cars charges in minutes ??

Originally posted by sonhouse
Combine that with solar paint to charge batteries in the daylight hours while you are at work or to make H2 inside the car and things begin to look serious!

I am not convinced that makes any sense. I don't think the surface area of a car is large enough. It makes far more sense to have solar panels on your roof, and plug the car in.

If you did put the solar panels on the car, then we should design our parking bays with reflectors to gather more light and direct it on the car - but then you might have heat problems.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I am not convinced that makes any sense. I don't think the surface area of a car is large enough. It makes far more sense to have solar panels on your roof, and plug the car in.

If you did put the solar panels on the car, then we should design our parking bays with reflectors to gather more light and direct it on the car - but then you might have heat problems.

But if the car is stuck on the side of the road with no charge, at least after a few hours there would be enough charge to get you going a few miles anyway. You might get a couple hundred watts from the solar paint.

So pave the roof with solar AND use solar paint on the car. For an SUV it would make more sense since there would be a lot more surface area to collect sunlight.

Mr Fusion from Back to the future would help too🙂

Originally posted by sonhouse
But if the car is stuck on the side of the road with no charge, at least after a few hours there would be enough charge to get you going a few miles anyway.

Or you could carry a spare battery, or get towed, or get a spare battery from the nearest charging station.
To be honest, I don't think getting stuck without power is a big enough reason, unless you live in a country with very few sources of electricity, or long distances between power points.
If anything, electric cars have more emergency options than petrol.

I just don't see any significant reason to put the solar panel on the car, seemingly just because we are too lazy to plug the car in when we park.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Or you could carry a spare battery, or get towed, or get a spare battery from the nearest charging station.
To be honest, I don't think getting stuck without power is a big enough reason, unless you live in a country with very few sources of electricity, or long distances between power points.
If anything, electric cars have more emergency options than ...[text shortened]... olar panel on the car, seemingly just because we are too lazy to plug the car in when we park.

It could charge the car as you drove, thus increasing the range.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I am willing to be convinced otherwise, but simply telling me I am wrong without any other information serves only to confirm my suspicions.

What, you expect me to provide you with proof that I am not employed by Exxon? Don't be daft. I'm simply telling you that you are wrong concerning my employment, and if you refuse to accept that, you can go fly a kite.

Richard

Originally posted by sonhouse
If wind does 2.5 percent, total would be 350 odd gigawatts. I didn't know there was that much coming off wind.

But if we did multiply it by 50, there may be ecological consequences we don't see now.

Not to mention that, as with hydro power, most of the really good spots are already taken. To get 50 times as much power from hydro or wind, we will need quite a bit more than 50 times as many hydro or wind generators.

At any rate, nobody would suggest hanging our hat on one energy technique.

You'd hope not, but the way some of the green lobby is talking...

Richard

Originally posted by jimslyp69
It could charge the car as you drove, thus increasing the range.

Not good enough. The range for a petrol car is effectively endless. Yes, you can only go so far on a tank, but refueling only takes ten minutes or so. That done, you can go on again immediately. As long as you stay within inhabited areas, your car will go on for longer than you will.
An electric car, even the best current electric car, will go the length of its batteries, and then conk out for hours on end. This simply is not good enough, even if that happens only every two days. If I forget to plug in an electric car last thing in the evening, I can't go anywhere all next day. That won't do. When I forget to get petrol one day, it's ten minutes out of my morning next day. A nuisance, but workable.

What needs to change, desperately, for electric cars to be even worth considering for everyday life, is that it only takes ten minutes or so to top up the batteries, as it does with fuel cars. Anything else is simply not practical. The only solution I can see which doesn't involve massive electrical power delivered straight to your feet, is swappable batteries. And that has problems all of its own.

Richard

Originally posted by Shallow Blue
What, you expect me to provide you with proof that I am not employed by Exxon? Don't be daft. I'm simply telling you that you are wrong concerning my employment, and if you refuse to accept that, you can go fly a kite.

Richard

Ha ha. Your taking this far too personally.

Why don't you just explain why you support 'the hydrogen economy'? There must be a reason, and the only ones I can think of are:
1. It make rational sense - and you can explain it to us.
2. Those wishing to promote you have convinced you that it make sense but you don't really know why yourself.
3. You have reasons for promoting it regardless of whether it makes sense.

Originally posted by Shallow Blue
Not to mention that, as with hydro power, most of the really good spots are already taken. To get 50 times as much power from hydro or wind, we will need quite a bit more than 50 times as many hydro or wind generators.

Who needs 50 times the Hydro electric power? It already supplies 20% of the worlds electricity.

Zambia gets 100% of its power from this source and has several places that could be still be utilized.

I think we should also invest more in solar power as we have plenty of sunlight.

Originally posted by Shallow Blue
This simply is not good enough,...

Not good enough for whom?
It would be good enough for me, even though I can afford only one car. I would buy a Chinese electric car today if I could afford it. People who have two cars would probably be happy to have one electric and use the other for longer trips or emergencies. Plenty of people in Africa have a small car for short trips and a big 4x4 for going into the bush (or at least that's the idea, sadly rather too many people drive massive 4wheel drive cars around town for the status).
My sister is a farmer, and usually has two cars (though one is often broken down).
If she could get an electric pickup, it would cut her fuel costs by over 50%.


The only solution I can see which doesn't involve massive electrical power delivered straight to your feet, is swappable batteries. And that has problems all of its own.
But it is achievable. If we had swappable batteries, we could have an extra set at home on charge.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Not good enough for whom?
It would be good enough for me, even though I can afford only one car. I would buy a Chinese electric car today if I could afford it. People who have two cars would probably be happy to have one electric and use the other for longer trips or emergencies. Plenty of people in Africa have a small car for short trips and a big 4x4 f ...[text shortened]... it is achievable. If we had swappable batteries, we could have an extra set at home on charge.

As it stands now, batteries are the biggest expense for a car. Like 10,000 US or more. The price would have to come down 90% to be able to afford spares hanging around the house for swapping purposes.

Originally posted by sonhouse
As it stands now, batteries are the biggest expense for a car. Like 10,000 US or more. The price would have to come down 90% to be able to afford spares hanging around the house for swapping purposes.

Can you give me some sources for that price? Wikipedia says the Teslas battery pack is about US$ 12,000 but suggests the Leaf, is much lower though an exact price is not given.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Plenty of people in Africa have a small car for short trips and a big 4x4 for going into the bush

Plenty of people in the whiter parts of Africa, perhaps. It's still a continent where 5% of the people live off the poverty of the other 95%, even if some of the 5% are now native dictators or Asian contractors rather than European colonisers. Those other 95% are lucky indeed if they can even afford a single car made after 1980.

But even here in Europe, I'm quite certain that I, for one, could not afford to maintain two cars just for the sake of making a dubious ecological point. Remember that the electricity has to come from somewhere (just as, it must be said, the hydrogen), and that somewhere will, until we do get fusion or solar power up and running, make little difference to the net amount of fuel burned. And that's not counting the extra space they would take up (not as much of that about in the polders as in the Veldt...) and the extra resources their production would cost.

Richard

Originally posted by Shallow Blue
Plenty of people in the whiter parts of Africa, perhaps. It's still a continent where 5% of the people live off the poverty of the other 95%, even if some of the 5% are now native dictators or Asian contractors rather than European colonisers. Those other 95% are lucky indeed if they can even afford a single car made after 1980.

I am aware of that, I am African after all. Many people I know in Zambia do not own cars and probably never will. So this discussion has nothing to do with them. If you cant afford a car, who cares if its electric or petrol?
As for those who can afford a car, the majority would be willing to give up on range, if they can save 50% on fuel costs (which would, I believe be the case in Zambia). Add to that much lower maintenance costs, and I think many people would choose electric if they had the option.

But even here in Europe, I'm quite certain that I, for one, could not afford to maintain two cars just for the sake of making a dubious ecological point.
Well from what I have seen in European movies, many people do drive small cars which are really only suitable for short distances.
I am not claiming that electric cars should instantly replace all vehicles, but I do think that there is a large market for them right now and that it is the makers that are deliberately not supplying because it is not in their best interests.

Remember that the electricity has to come from somewhere (just as, it must be said, the hydrogen), and that somewhere will, until we do get fusion or solar power up and running, make little difference to the net amount of fuel burned.
That may be so in Europe, but not in Zambia. Our electric power is 100% hydroelectric and locally produced. Our fuel is imported over land at great expense. It would make a massive difference to us if we could convert some of our cars to electric.

... and the extra resources their production would cost.
Cars typically only last 10-20 years. If you have a second car, they would last longer, so I am not convinced production costs are a real issue.
On top of that electric cars are much lower maintenance.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I am aware of that, I am African after all. Many people I know in Zambia do not own cars and probably never will. So this discussion has nothing to do with them. If you cant afford a car, who cares if its electric or petrol?
As for those who can afford a car, the majority would be willing to give up on range, if they can save 50% on fuel costs (which wou ...[text shortened]... ed production costs are a real issue.
On top of that electric cars are much lower maintenance.

I saw a graphic on the moving parts of petrol cars V electric. Electric, one moving part. pretty convincing stuff, gas cars, we know they have hundreds of moving parts, any one of which, if it fails, you no drive......

That said, batteries become the single biggest cost of replacement, tens of thousands of dollars in some cases. That has to be dealt with before electrics make inroads into the mass market.