Of Course It's Aliens, Dummy

Originally posted by whodey
Boring.

I'd rather try to make out statues with Mars rock formations.

If you had chosen to omit the word 'statues' that would have been a much more interesting comment.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
If you had chosen to omit the word 'statues' that would have been a much more interesting comment.

Wow, that moggles the bind! Seems like it would chaff a bit though......

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
If you had chosen to omit the word 'statues' that would have been a much more interesting comment.

And more entertaining if he'd omitted the last three words and moved the word "with" left one.

Originally posted by googlefudge
It's not so much that I am advocating for a loose arrangement, it's more that such an
arrangement is physically possible, as opposed to the shell idea which isn't.

However, no matter how much thermal shielding you have, the power in must equal
power out. As such you must have a radiator large enough to radiate 1 stars energy
at your desired temp ...[text shortened]... tml/rocket/spacewardetect.php#id--Why_Not?_Let_me_count_the_ways--What_If_I_Run_Silent_And_Cold?

I may be missing your point somewhere in here, but how do you know what temperature the sphere's surface would be radiating at? In order to to know that you have to know the power consumption from the alien race...or am I missing something?

Originally posted by joe shmo
I may be missing your point somewhere in here, but how do you know what temperature the sphere's surface would be radiating at? In order to to know that you have to know the power consumption from the alien race...or am I missing something?

The total energy emitted by the star will eventually have to be released as waste heat. So the rate of power use determines the rate that waste heat is generated. Since they have the entire power output of a star. For the sun that is 184 trillion times the light that hits the Earth. That's 3.846 * 10^17 giga watts. Assuming a population of about the same as the Earth (~10 ^ 10) you could have a gigawatt each for about 3.8*10^7 times the lifetime of your star. Assuming some method of storing such a colossal amount of energy. A star lasts about 10 billion years, not counting the white dwarf stage, so you could keep your civilization going on stored energy for what in practical terms is forever.

Originally posted by DeepThought
The total energy emitted by the star will eventually have to be released as waste heat. So the rate of power use determines the rate that waste heat is generated. Since they have the entire power output of a star. For the sun that is 184 trillion times the light that hits the Earth. That's 3.846 * 10^17 giga watts. Assuming a population of about the ...[text shortened]... you could keep your civilization going on stored energy for what in practical terms is forever.

Why would they need that much power to live earth style lives? It seems to me that our civilizations agenda is do more with less. So if at all like us they really shouldn't need a sphere unless the end user application requires gobs of power all the time. How much power does it take to maintain a network of worm holes? How much power does it take to maintain the application we don't understand, or even know can exist? I would argue that whatever it is, it's probably a stars power. Then the question may be when or where is that heat being generated? The temp of the sphere could be quite cool.

Originally posted by joe shmo
It seems to me that our civilizations agenda is do more with less.

The world economy is entirely driven by power and the cost of power. Nothing else really matters in terms of money, and since money drives everything else, power is everything. The drive to do more with less is all about getting more out of power or essentially reducing the cost of power. A large proportions of wars are over power (energy).
Obtaining power is also the most environmentally damaging exercises at the current time, far exceeding any other industry.
If we ever found a free environmentally neutral source of power it would change the world. Economies would change, governments would change, everything would change very very dramatically.

Originally posted by joe shmo
Why would they need that much power to live earth style lives? It seems to me that our civilizations agenda is do more with less. So if at all like us they really shouldn't need a sphere unless the end user application requires gobs of power all the time. How much power does it take to maintain a network of worm holes? How much power does it take to mainta ...[text shortened]... may be when or where is that heat being generated? The temp of the sphere could be quite cool.

Good grief, I'm giving them a gigawatt each. I don't know the world average but I'd guess of the order of a kilowatt per person. Computation requires power. With that kind of power you could simulate a reality and have enough juice left over to run a Planck Scale linear accelerator. There are some other limitations, but might not apply to some sort of quantum machine. I'm not imagining a future of frivolous high energy consumerism.

Originally posted by DeepThought
Good grief, I'm giving them a gigawatt each. I don't know the world average but I'd guess of the order of a kilowatt per person. Computation requires power. With that kind of power you could simulate a reality and have enough juice left over to run a Planck Scale linear accelerator. There are some other limitations, but might not apply to some sort of quantum machine. I'm not imagining a future of frivolous high energy consumerism.

Good grief?!? I didn't mean to upset you, I was just genuinely trying to rock the boat. I didn't realize,nor intend to be annoying. From what I read of your posts in these forums the only thing I can determine for sure is that you ad most of the others are more knowledgeable in most (if not all) scientific arenas than myself. Just trying to pick your brain to see how I might improve my own thought process.

Originally posted by joe shmo
Good grief?!? I didn't mean to upset you, I was just genuinely trying to rock the boat. I didn't realize,nor intend to be annoying. From what I read of your posts in these forums the only thing I can determine for sure is that you ad most of the others are more knowledgeable in most (if not all) scientific arenas than myself. Just trying to pick your brain to see how I might improve my own thought process.

I wasn't upset, the "good grief" was to emphasize the amount of energy a star pumps out. "Earth style" lives need of the order of 1 kW each, that's of the order of 10 TW for total human energy use. The total power output of the sun is just unimaginably immense, about 100 trillion times that figure. The only three reasons I can think of a species doing that are longevity (storing the energy), computation, or some paranoid military project.

Originally posted by DeepThought
I wasn't upset, the "good grief" was to emphasize the amount of energy a star pumps out. "Earth style" lives need of the order of 1 kW each, that's of the order of 10 TW for total human energy use. The total power output of the sun is just unimaginably immense, about 100 trillion times that figure. The only three reasons I can think of a species doing that are longevity (storing the energy), computation, or some paranoid military project.

That's because you lack imagination 😛 also because you didn't watch the video I
linked in which someone gives another reason for building a Sphere.

High speed travel around the galaxy [or between them] takes astronomically huge amounts
of energy. The best energy store for starships [that we currently know of] is anti-mater [AM]
which takes huge amounts of energy per Kg to make.

Fortunately a Sphere gives you the biblical amounts of energy you need.

This coupled with the probability of a future in which we transfer much if not all of our intellects to
computing substrates and virtual realities requiring ever increasing computational power... etc etc.

Originally posted by googlefudge
That's because you lack imagination 😛 also because you didn't watch the video I
linked in which someone gives another reason for building a Sphere.

High speed travel around the galaxy [or between them] takes astronomically huge amounts
of energy. The best energy store for starships [that we currently know of] is anti-mater [AM]
which takes huge ...[text shortened]... uting substrates and virtual realities requiring ever increasing computational power... etc etc.

They would have to be an extremely long lived civilization if they are going from one galaxy to another, Andromeda is a couple million LY away so at least 2 million years to get there, another 2 mil to get back, 4 million years to hold a conversation, And Andromeda is one of the close ones, of course there are our own satellites, large and small magellanic's and such, about 1/10th that distance, still a LONG time between question and answer.....

Originally posted by sonhouse
They would have to be an extremely long lived civilization if they are going from one galaxy to another, Andromeda is a couple million LY away so at least 2 million years to get there, another 2 mil to get back, 4 million years to hold a conversation, And Andromeda is one of the close ones, of course there are our own satellites, large and small magellanic's and such, about 1/10th that distance, still a LONG time between question and answer.....

If your conciousness is embedded in computing substrate, billions of years is not a problem.

Originally posted by googlefudge
That's because you lack imagination 😛 also because you didn't watch the video I
linked in which someone gives another reason for building a Sphere.

High speed travel around the galaxy [or between them] takes astronomically huge amounts
of energy. The best energy store for starships [that we currently know of] is anti-mater [AM]
which takes huge ...[text shortened]... uting substrates and virtual realities requiring ever increasing computational power... etc etc.

I mentioned computation, when I was writing the post I'd thought of reality simulation, but ended up with this complicated mess where I was pointing out other physical limitations on computation - so deleted that part to keep my post clear. You could build a huge cyclotron as well, any number of things, but what matters is the primary purpose. Assuming they're not paranoid the leading contender is some kind of civilizational longevity project within which reality simulations and long distance trips are strategies.

Originally posted by DeepThought
I mentioned computation, when I was writing the post I'd thought of reality simulation, but ended up with this complicated mess where I was pointing out other physical limitations on computation - so deleted that part to keep my post clear. You could build a huge cyclotron as well, any number of things, but what matters is the primary purpose. Assuming ...[text shortened]... ional longevity project within which reality simulations and long distance trips are strategies.

Also, even if you are not looking at high transhumanist societies, a regular human society
with a massively large population would require massively greater living space and energy
needs, which a Sphere could provide.

If we solve the ageing problem as expected this century, solving how to maintain massive
populations will be a real concern.