Organically Grown Fruits and Vegetables

Originally posted by Metal Brain
No. I stated earlier on this thread that I bought some grape juice that I intend to ferment into my own wine with as I do every now and then.

I would think your second biggest health concern would be biological organisms introduced into your fermenting process. Next, you need to look at what container you are doing the fermenting in, and consider whether that is releasing chemicals into the wine (plastics, certain metals, and some woods could all be hazardous).

But your biggest health concern should be the alcohol itself. You are more likely to die as a side effect of alcohol consumption than from the pesticides on the grapes.
The risks include cancer but it is not the only health concern with alcohol.

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/alcohol

Originally posted by twhitehead
I would think your second biggest health concern would be biological organisms introduced into your fermenting process. Next, you need to look at what container you are doing the fermenting in, and consider whether that is releasing chemicals into the wine (plastics, certain metals, and some woods could all be hazardous).

But your biggest health concer ...[text shortened]... e only health concern with alcohol.

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/alcohol

I don't think you fully understand the fermentation process, for as the yeast turns the sugars into alcohol, it reaches a stage where the alcohol content as a percentage, usually 9-17 percent in wines kills off the fermentation process. You can actually calculate how much alcohol you would like in your wine by taking a reading of the specific gravity and adding sugar accordingly. One would need to drink wine in great quantities every day to die of alcohol poisoning i suspect and he should be more concerned with pesticides on his grapes than to die of alcohol poisoning. Most fermentation of wine in the home is done in glass jars and all equipment is sterilized prior to use for the winemaker is well aware of rouge elements.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I don't think you fully understand the fermentation process, for as the yeast turns the sugars into alcohol, it reaches a stage where the alcohol content as a percentage, usually 9-17 percent in wines kills off the fermentation process. You can actually calculate how much alcohol you would like in your wine by taking a reading of the specific gravit ...[text shortened]... and all equipment is sterilized prior to use for the winemaker is well aware of rouge elements.

One would need to drink wine in great quantities every day to die of alcohol poisoning

The fact is that, although high alcohol consumption obviously caries the greater risk, you could still die from very moderate alcohol consumption -not from ' alcohol poisoning' but from other more indirect health risks. For example;

http://www.futurity.org/don%E2%80%99t-ignore-the-risks-of-moderate-drinking/
“...Researchers find that even moderate drinking, one and a half drinks per day, can be attributed to nearly 6,000 cancer deaths annually in the US. ...”

The main reason for this risk is because alcohol tends to interact with more potent mutagens to enhance their damaging effect.

and he should be more concerned with pesticides on his grapes than to die of alcohol poisoning

No, not true, he shouldn't. We currently have reason to think more deaths are caused by moderate drinking than pesticides residues in grapes. Just look at the statistics in the above link and other relevant links. Until if or when we have statistical evidence and/or scientific evidence to contradict that, the default assumption should be that the alcohol probably generally carries the much greater risk.

I think I should also point out that many if not most pesticides these days are either biodegradable or spontaneously degrade relatively quickly (with, for example, half gone every day depending on which sort it is or the conditions such as temperature ) and that means the fermentation precess would destroy many types of pesticides and, remember, in most cases, we are generally only talking here about minute traces anyway.

Originally posted by humy

One would need to drink wine in great quantities every day to die of alcohol poisoning

The fact is that, although high alcohol consumption obviously caries the greater risk, you could still die from very moderate alcohol consumption -not from ' alcohol poisoning' but from other more indirect health risks. For example;

http://www.futuri ...[text shortened]... ides residues in grapes. Just look at the statistics in the above link and other relevant links.

and yet the French have wine with their meals as do the Italians and many other people of the Mediterranean, perhaps your science has not reached them yet? No i would definitely be more worried about pesticides than any perceived alcohol related illnesses by the moderate consumption of wine.

Originally posted by Metal Brain
No. I stated earlier on this thread that I bought some grape juice that I intend to ferment into my own wine with as I do every now and then. I'm sure there are pesticides in the grape juice as I bought it from Walmart because it was the best price I could find. I can't afford organically grown grape juice. I do limit my consumption of it though.

I d ...[text shortened]... //www.mindbodygreen.com/0-13571/12-fruits-veggies-with-the-most-pesticides-2014-dirty-dozen.html

you could try growing your potatoes in tubs which may prevent those pesky beetles and you can ferment practically anything as long as it doesn't contain preservatives, so fresh orange juice or mango juice, apple juice etc

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
and yet the French have wine with their meals as do the Italians and many other people of the Mediterranean, perhaps your science has not reached them yet? No i would definitely be more worried about pesticides than any perceived alcohol related illnesses by the moderate consumption of wine.

and yet the French have wine with their meals as do the Italians and many other people of the Mediterranean

-They would all have lower cancer rates if they didn't. See:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/05/13/red_wine_study/
“...Boffins debunk red wine miracle antioxidant myth...
Saddening news from US researchers who have demonstrated that quaffing red wine doesn't confer some of the alleged benefits attributed to the tipple, specifically the ability of the antioxidant resveratrol to "reduce deaths, cardiovascular disease or cancer". ...”

All the health claims made for drinking alcohol (plus consuming the vast majority of different types of antioxidants with no notable exceptions I am currently aware of ) is complete bollocks.
When proper vigorous scientific investigation is conducted and filters out all other health factors such as smoking, lifestyle etc rather than relying on unscientific small-scaled flawed studies, the said health 'benefits' of alcohol is proved to be complete myth every time and has been extremely thoroughly debunked several times over already by several large scale studies.

No i would definitely be more worried about pesticides

then you are irrational. I would be more concerned with the alcohol that science says probably carries the greater risk and I never drink alcohol only partly because of this (I also just don't like the idea of taking something that I know would interfere with my brain even if there is no long-term health risks. I personally want to stay mentally as stone cold sober as possible )

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
One would need to drink wine in great quantities every day to die of alcohol poisoning...

I said nothing of alcohol poisoning.

Most fermentation of wine in the home is done in glass jars and all equipment is sterilized prior to use for the winemaker is well aware of rouge elements.
Yet a moment ago you said these 'rouge elements' were of no concern because the alcohol killed them off. Make up your mind.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
and yet the French have wine with their meals as do the Italians and many other people of the Mediterranean, perhaps your science has not reached them yet? No i would definitely be more worried about pesticides than any perceived alcohol related illnesses by the moderate consumption of wine.

I am fairly sure the French also eat plenty of non-organic crops too. The fact that people eat or drink something tells us nothing whatsoever about its relative health risk compared to another thing they eat or drink. The only thing it tells us is that it doesn't kill instantly.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I would think your second biggest health concern would be biological organisms introduced into your fermenting process. Next, you need to look at what container you are doing the fermenting in, and consider whether that is releasing chemicals into the wine (plastics, certain metals, and some woods could all be hazardous).

But your biggest health concer ...[text shortened]... e only health concern with alcohol.

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/alcohol

No, only those that do not practice good sanitation should be concerned and those people should not ferment anything. That is not a concern of mine.

I use glass.

Alcohol in moderation has benefits, but more than that can contribute to cancer as I am well aware. It is funny how you assume I was born yesterday. Have you not learned yet that I am more informed than most people?

Originally posted by humy

One would need to drink wine in great quantities every day to die of alcohol poisoning

The fact is that, although high alcohol consumption obviously caries the greater risk, you could still die from very moderate alcohol consumption -not from ' alcohol poisoning' but from other more indirect health risks. For example;

http://www.futuri ...[text shortened]... des and, remember, in most cases, we are generally only talking here about minute traces anyway.

Dimethoate is commonly used on grapes and the fermentation process does not destroy it and is considered biodegradable. Perhaps you do not understand what biodegradable means in this context.

Originally posted by Metal Brain
Dimethoate is commonly used on grapes and the fermentation process does not destroy it and is considered biodegradable. Perhaps you do not understand what biodegradable means in this context.

This, if true, wouldn't contradict anything I claimed there and is irrelevant to what I just said.

Originally posted by Metal Brain
Alcohol in moderation has benefits, but more than that can contribute to cancer as I am well aware.

Its funny how suddenly for alcohol, moderation is harmless but only in larger quantities can it cause cancer, but when it is pesticides, quantities don't matter at all, they must be avoided as they can cause cancer even in moderation.

In reality, wine can cause cancer even in moderation, and the risk of cancer from moderate alcohol consumption is higher than the risk of cancer from pesticides found on ordinary foods.

It is funny how you assume I was born yesterday.
I made no such assumption.

Have you not learned yet that I am more informed than most people?
On that I agree, which is one reason why I continue to converse with you but generally ignore RJ. I have even learnt a thing or two from you in our discussions although I probably learned more from Wikipedia prompted by our discussions.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I said nothing of alcohol poisoning.

[b]Most fermentation of wine in the home is done in glass jars and all equipment is sterilized prior to use for the winemaker is well aware of rouge elements.
Yet a moment ago you said these 'rouge elements' were of no concern because the alcohol killed them off. Make up your mind.[/b]

mere pedantry

Originally posted by humy

and yet the French have wine with their meals as do the Italians and many other people of the Mediterranean

-They would all have lower cancer rates if they didn't. See:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/05/13/red_wine_study/
“...Boffins debunk red wine miracle antioxidant myth...
Saddening news from US researchers who have demonstrated ...[text shortened]... no long-term health risks. I personally want to stay mentally as stone cold sober as possible )

hardly, does acid not break down fat? Is wine not acidic and therefore helps the body break down fat? are you sure you have employed the scientific method for this seems elementary my dear Watson.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
mere pedantry

Call it what you will. I'm right, you are wrong, and we both know it. But you like your wine and can't admit that it might not be good for you.