18 Feb 19
@Metal-Brain
Can you tell me what is special about the last 200 years that climate change, increase temps everywhere including the ocean, is happening and accelerating as we speak? The sun isn't producing any more energy now than 200 years ago so what in your opinion is the driving force at work here?
18 Feb 19
@sonhouse said" The sun isn't producing any more energy now than 200 years ago"
@Metal-Brain
Can you tell me what is special about the last 200 years that climate change, increase temps everywhere including the ocean, is happening and accelerating as we speak? The sun isn't producing any more energy now than 200 years ago so what in your opinion is the driving force at work here?
How do you know?
@metal-brain saidHow do you know you're real?
" The sun isn't producing any more energy now than 200 years ago"
How do you know?
@metal-brain saidThis is not skeptical enquiry. You've convinced yourself there is a conspiracy and every piece of evidence presented to you which might contradict the conspiracy is dismissed using another ad hoc argument. You've no evidence that the sun's output varies enough to explain current atmospheric warming but expect sonhouse to disprove the claim anyway.
" The sun isn't producing any more energy now than 200 years ago"
How do you know?
19 Feb 19
@deepthought saidYour assertion is absolutely absurd. The mini ice age was caused by reduced solar activity. To say the opposite cannot happen is ridiculous.
This is not skeptical enquiry. You've convinced yourself there is a conspiracy and every piece of evidence presented to you which might contradict the conspiracy is dismissed using another ad hoc argument. You've no evidence that the sun's output varies enough to explain current atmospheric warming but expect sonhouse to disprove the claim anyway.
Also, your assertion that I dismissed his statement as a conspiracy is outright false. You must have been drunk. Sober up before posting nonsense that makes no sense.
@metal-brain saidThe assertion was that you could not provide evidence that solar variation explains current warming. I did not assert that the opposite was impossible, just that you cannot show that that explains current warming.
Your assertion is absolutely absurd. The mini ice age was caused by reduced solar activity. To say the opposite cannot happen is ridiculous.
Also, your assertion that I dismissed his statement as a conspiracy is outright false. You must have been drunk. Sober up before posting nonsense that makes no sense.
19 Feb 19
@deepthought saidI NEVER said I had evidence. I pointed out sonhouse had none to back up his claim. There is a difference.
The assertion was that you could not provide evidence that solar variation explains current warming. I did not assert that the opposite was impossible, just that you cannot show that that explains current warming.
The Mini Ice age was caused by solar variation. That variation must have changed to cause subsequent warming. Common sense.
Just because I asked him how he knows doesn't mean I made an assertion. I was pointing out his lack of evidence, not me having any. DUH!
19 Feb 19
@metal-brain saidSonhouse's statement was that solar insolation hasn't changed much in the last 200 years. He didn't provide any evidence, but you haven't provided any to the contrary. Since you made a post you clearly believe something approximating to the converse. As an aside, although sunspot activity has changed over that period, this is not the same as insolation. The Wikipedia page gives a list of possible causes for the Little Ice Age, although it does include solar and other astrophysical forcing, that explanation for the cold period is speculative. So you're relying on a speculative theory to counter sonhouse's point.
I NEVER said I had evidence. I pointed out sonhouse had none to back up his claim. There is a difference.
The Mini Ice age was caused by solar variation. That variation must have changed to cause subsequent warming. Common sense.
Just because I asked him how he knows doesn't mean I made an assertion. I was pointing out his lack of evidence, not me having any. DUH!
@Metal-Brain
This graph of past temperatures refutes your claim temps have been going up for 200 years. Actually going up only in the last ONE HUNDRED years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature_record_of_the_past_1000_years#/media/File:2000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png
And this, showing solar irradiation increased till the 1950's and has gone down some since then so the sun is not causing the present rise in temperature.
https://ourchangingclimate.wordpress.com/2010/04/11/recent-changes-in-the-sun-co2-and-global-average-temperature-little-ice-age-onwards/
19 Feb 19
@metal-brain said1. Mankind is putting tonnes of CO2 into atmosphere.
This global warming trend has been happening for over 200 years. It is obvious it started by natural causes.
Which greenhouse gasses do you think is causing AGW? What is the percentage of those gasses in the atmosphere?
Show me using the sea level rise graph from NASA. Gossip isn't relevant here.
2. CO2 is a greenhouse gas.
3. The Earth is getting warmer. (Partly or wholly because of greenhouse gases)
4. A warmer Earth causes ice to melt.
5. Melting ice-caps cause sea-level rise.
Which of those statements do you disagree with?
20 Feb 19
@deepthought saidSpeculative? Explain it with something that is not speculative. I don't think you know what you are talking about.
Sonhouse's statement was that solar insolation hasn't changed much in the last 200 years. He didn't provide any evidence, but you haven't provided any to the contrary. Since you made a post you clearly believe something approximating to the converse. As an aside, although sunspot activity has changed over that period, this is not the same as insolation. The Wikipedia ...[text shortened]... cold period is speculative. So you're relying on a speculative theory to counter sonhouse's point.
Irradiance includes many factors. Not sure why you think there is a big distinction.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_irradiance
20 Feb 19
@wolfgang59 saidNone of them.
1. Mankind is putting tonnes of CO2 into atmosphere.
2. CO2 is a greenhouse gas.
3. The Earth is getting warmer. (Partly or wholly because of greenhouse gases)
4. A warmer Earth causes ice to melt.
5. Melting ice-caps cause sea-level rise.
Which of those statements do you disagree with?
This warming trend started naturally over 200 years ago after the little ice age. Show me how man has changed that trend with sea level rise.
20 Feb 19
@sonhouse saidThat is absurd. Stop relying on wikicrap. You saw the Nasa sea level graph there was sea level rise as far back as the graph goes, about 1880. If there was no warming why did sea levels rise?
@Metal-Brain
This graph of past temperatures refutes your claim temps have been going up for 200 years. Actually going up only in the last ONE HUNDRED years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature_record_of_the_past_1000_years#/media/File:2000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png
And this, showing solar irradiation increased till the 1950's and has gone down some since ...[text shortened]... .com/2010/04/11/recent-changes-in-the-sun-co2-and-global-average-temperature-little-ice-age-onwards/
"And this, showing solar irradiation increased till the 1950's and has gone down some since then so the sun is not causing the present rise in temperature."
Irradiation and insolation are the same thing. You contradicted your statement that it has not changed. You discredited yourself and deepthought as well unless you are wrong. I'll let you two figure it out.
20 Feb 19
@Metal-Brain
Like I said, we put up ANY kind of data refuting your claims, you just move the goalpost. Where are your COUNTER claims backed up by scientific study, MODERN studies?