Originally posted by ToeDetecting engines isnt that hard, other chess sites do it all the time. 95% match up to an engine isnt proof, in some chess games, those that are short, tactically forced will get a very high match up to any engine. However drag a game out for 40 moves and the chances of anyone matching something like Fritz8 for each move is slim, the chances of them matching up 95% to fritz8 for 20 games is something in the area of 1 in 10 to the power of 120 (10 with 120 zeros after it).
A little ramble to show just how difficult this is likely to be. Again, top show all who have signed up for possible inclusion.
Determine a policy of how accusations are submitted:
Where this accusation is made (not a public forum for a sta ...[text shortened]... same thing but related, as it requires the same analysis skills.
Stronger players will match up a lot more I wouldnt be surprsed to see some hitting 60% in some games but normally the match up is about 30%. This is because of the difference between fritz and humans, fritz will just try to crunch numbers and find good variations, the way humans select the candadate moves is firstly intuistion then the work the variations out. Theres many factors which effect the human chess play, the main two being style and rating. If you think of all the GM's in the past notice how diverse their style is, even the ones of simlar styles, their moves would and have never matched up 100% to any other GM,IM or FM game after game. Its this that allows us to say with certainty that people who are throwing out 95% match ups to any engine game after game are using that engine.
You are right about the openings, they shouldnt be taken into account when checking for engines, people can get openings from books, databases etc.
Engames is another special mater, I would totally expect a strong human player to be able to take a won endgame and win it against any engine since the game if often quite simple and given sufficent time any human can caculate the best lines. Yet there would still be a difference in play from the fritz caculation/tablebase and human play.
I think this is an idea who's time has long past come and I urge ya boys to get to work immediately. I think I'd be a tad too eh, contentious for this type of duty and besides, I'd have to put a muzzle on, which I find uncomfortable. But, to arms - let's get rocking and rolling and throw some cheaters in the volcano straight up!!!
Starrman
Lucifershammer
Paultopia
NicolaiS
ouroboros
David Tebb
Grayeyesofsorrow
tejo
trekkie
Mephisto2
mrmist
Marinakatomb
TimmyToilet
TRACKHEAD21
Crowley
chess kid1
Ragnorak
cbd
TheMaster37
I have the same things going on as mentioned above. Not a super good player (not paying enough attention is the common problem) and no chessprograms worth mentioning in my possession. Strong insight and ethical values are a good thing too tohugh :p
I'd definitely want some 2100+ player in the team...we need them to analyse the games played by those rated so high. They may well be able to win from any program we can get our hands on, so our methods to detect cheating won't work on those.
For similar reasons i'd want lower rated player in the team as well. 2000+ players cannot judge what a 1300+ does and does not see, therefore they cannot accurately judge wether a move is suspicious or not for those players.
My two cents.
I ran into a few I thought that are cheating and had this conversation with others about it. all told me not to worry about it, I told myself that maybe I'm over reacting and just forgot about it, but it seems there's alot to worry about from all the post I see. Now you all got me wondering about it again. Why would anyone pay money to play on this site just to cheat it don't make any sense to me because it seems you would'nt get any enjoyment out of it if you did.
Starrman
Lucifershammer
Paultopia
NicolaiS
ouroboros
David Tebb
Grayeyesofsorrow
tejo
trekkie
Mephisto2
mrmist
Marinakatomb
TimmyToilet
TRACKHEAD21
Crowley
chess kid1
Ragnorak
cbd
TheMaster37
SirUlrich
I promise to bring a sense of fair play to both sides of the argument. I don't think that this "Cheat Panel" should have ideas of grandeur nor ambitions to becoming vigilantes