29 Aug 13
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyBy convincing a moderator, I mean that if you alert a post you see a text box in which to state your problem. You need to use the text box to explain to a moderator that there is a problem that needs to be taken care of.
"So option 1 is already in place, which requires alerting of a post and convincing a moderator to take action."
I'm glad we're zeroing in on a realistic assessment of the several issues. Pleasing everybody certainly is impossible. With reference the quoted portion of your reply, my impression for the past six years has been that all site forum moder ...[text shortened]... ting" driven by subjective dislike of some other RHP Member otherwise in good standing?
Perhaps you can describe that process in a better way without the use of the word "convince".
From that point it's up to the moderator to do whatever is going to be done.
I have no idea of how the moderators handle "gang alerting". Do you think it's a problem? I would expect they would look at a complaint in the same manner regardless of if it were a single alert or numerous alerts.
30 Aug 13
Originally posted by mwmillerAppreciate for your prompt reply. Describing the issue makes sense. Sorry for taking the word literally at face value, though it's often used as a synonym. Persuasion follows different avenues, depending on the writer's style. The "gang alerting" phrase has been used on occasion in messages, clan and private club comments. Haven't thought of it until today. Thanks.
By convincing a moderator, I mean that if you alert a post you see a text box in which to state your problem. You need to use the text box to explain to a moderator that there is a problem that needs to be taken care of.
Perhaps you can describe that process in a better way without the use of the word "convince".
From that point it's up to the moderator t ...[text shortened]... a complaint in the same manner regardless of if it were a single alert or numerous alerts.
30 Aug 13
2 edits
Originally posted by humyWell this isn't my issue, it's your's, and therefore the onus is on you to provide a rational for your case as stated in your OP. I am simply pointing out that the case you have provided thus far is inadequate based on it being unfair and discriminatory.whilst maintain that the Spirituality forum is there for the "religious vs science" debate, which in fact it isn't.
So why should the Science forum be used just as much as the Spirituality be used for the "religious vs science" debate in particular? You haven't explained that at all while I have already explained the reasons for the contr ily use the Spirituality forum for this like they have often been doing.
What i am trying to point out is that if "us scientists" are precious about maintaining the purity of the Science forum, then maybe they would be willing to excercise the same restraint in the Spirituality forum. The fact that in this hypothetical scenario there is nowhere for you to argue the science vs religion perspective would be an outcome of enforcing your original premise.
If you want a private forum for "us scientists" why don't you set up a private club?
30 Aug 13
1 edit
Originally posted by Velns
Well this isn't my issue, it's your's, and therefore the onus is on you to provide a rational for your case as stated in your OP. I am simply pointing out that the case you have provided thus far is inadequate based on it being unfair and discriminatory.
What i am trying to point out is that if "us scientists" are precious about maintaining the purity of ...[text shortened]...
If you want a private forum for "us scientists" why don't you set up a private club?
What i am trying to point out is that if "us scientists" are precious about maintaining the purity of the Science forum,
NO, that is not exactly what we are saying nor want. It isn't about “maintaining the purity” but rather specifically keeping religious rhetoric out. We would generally have no objection to other (i.e. not religious ) non-science issues occasionally being razed in a science thread providing, of course, it doesn't happen too often or start dominating the forum.
Neither I here nor anybody else that I am aware of has ever demanded general “purity” of the forum in particular.
then maybe they would be willing to excercise the same restraint in the Spirituality forum.
As I said before earlier; why should they when virtually nobody complains about science being brought to the Spirituality forum because, presumably, virtually nobody minds science being brought there? Do you deny this? If so, can you give us evidence here that people generally DO have an issue with that?
This contrasts with the Science forum where most of us DO complain with religion being brought to the Science forum because we DO mind it being there! Do you deny this? If so, can you give us evidence here that people generally do NOT have an issue with that? -If you look through the Science forum in any of the threads, you will see constant complaining about religion being brought to the Science forum! If you don't believe me, just look at the Evolution vs Creationism/I.D. consolidation thread. ! What do you think that is about then if not this very issue?
OK, do YOU have an issue with science being brought to the Spirituality forum? YES or NO?
If NO, then I ask you yet AGAIN, OK then, would you object to there being a new separate "Religious vs Science" forum so that the "religious vs science" debate can go in there rather than either the Science forum or the Spirituality forum?
But if YES, then, just like I said before, GIVEN that you would OK that so that anyone that wants to debate "religious vs science" has a forum ( the Spirituality forum ) to do it in, what would be your reason for objecting banning the "religious vs science" debate from the Science forum? -Not being able to put the "religious vs science" in the Science forum would not impede their freedom to debate it because they would, providing they are not wishing to just bully, harass and troll us scientists in the Science forum who, generally, just want to talk about SCIENCE and NOT religion there, happily use the Spirituality forum for this like they have often been doing.
If you want a private forum for "us scientists" why don't you set up a private club?
-because, if it is private, because that means it is not public, I could be wrong about this but I doubt very much I could get enough people to join it for it to be worth while because that would still leave the problem that, because we generally want our threads to be seen PUBLICLY, many of us would continue to choose to place their threads in the public Science forum rather than any private one DESPITE knowing they would expose them to being hijacked there with religious rhetoric thus having a private forum probably wouldn't solve the problem anyway!
Now I have answered your questions, could you do the courtesy of answering mine?
I will continue to answer all your questions.
30 Aug 13
Originally posted by humyIf you have a "perennial problem" that violates the site TOS or the Forum Guidelines, the moderators are already fully capable of taking the actions you have outlined in your two proposals.
I have two proposals for solving this perennial problem of religion being constantly put into the science forum where it doesn't belong and were it spoils it for us who have a genuine interest in science.
All that is needed is for you to communicate with them.
30 Aug 13
6 edits
Originally posted by mwmiller
If you have a "perennial problem" that violates the site TOS or the Forum Guidelines, the moderators are already fully capable of taking the actions you have outlined in your two proposals.
All that is needed is for you to communicate with them.
If you have a "perennial problem" that violates the site TOS or the Forum Guidelines,
But I do NOT have a perennial problem that violates the Forum Guidelines!
-WE, in the Science forum, have a perennial problem that does NOT violates the Forum Guidelines! -THAT is the problem!
There is, for example, NOTHING in those Guidelines that say you are not allowed to put anti-evolution propaganda disguised as scientific theory in the science forum -EVEN THOUGH it is OBVIOUSLY just religious rhetoric from Creationists in disguise because it ALWAYS comes from them and is done by them for their religious agenda!
So there is no point in me taking this to the moderator until if or when those Guidelines change so that the moderator is given the legal tools to act effectively against this parental problem because, without that change, if I communicate this problem to the moderator, the moderator will do nothing even if he agrees wholeheartedly with me in principle! He would just say he cannot do anything about it because he doesn't make the rules.
The problem in the Science forum is not that people there are misbehaving by breaking the rules, the problem is that people there are misbehaving by OBEYING the rules and its the rules that need changing to stop people misbehaving.
30 Aug 13
Originally posted by humySo the current guidelines and rules are not being violated, but you want your problem posts to be added so that they do violate forum guidelines. Then the moderators can take action. I understand.If you have a "perennial problem" that violates the site TOS or the Forum Guidelines,
But I do NOT have a perennial problem that violates the Forum Guidelines!
-WE, in the Science forum, have a perennial problem that does [b]NOT violates the Forum Guidelines! -THAT is the problem!
There is, for example, NOTHING in those Guide ...[text shortened]... ly with me in principle! He would just say he cannot do it because he doesn't make the rules.[/b]
You have presented your suggestions and do not seem to be interested in any of the alternative ideas, so now I guess it's just a matter of waiting to see if RHP admin will take action.
30 Aug 13
2 edits
Originally posted by mwmillerwhat is "RHP admin"? I tried looking that up but got nowhere.
So the current guidelines and rules are not being violated, but you want your problem posts to be added so that they do violate forum guidelines. Then the moderators can take action. I understand.
You have presented your suggestions and do not seem to be interested in any of the alternative ideas, so now I guess it's just a matter of waiting to see if RHP admin will take action.
By the way:
Anyone:
I have been trying to contact the moderator about what I see an an offensive post in the Science forum but cannot seem to do so because I am not seeing any "Alert Moderator" nor the ! character that I have been told I should see next to the thumbs up and down. What am I doing wrong here?
30 Aug 13
1 edit
Originally posted by KewpieThanks for that. I didn't know that. I will try that.
"Alert Moderator" button is only visible to subscribers. Nonsubs are left with two choices: complain to other players in a forum post, or contact RHPadmin (the site owners), contact point being the "send feedback" link at the bottom of every page.
31 Aug 13
Originally posted by humyI have contacted the moderator and now got a message back from the moderator and he agrees and sympathizes with my message and what I want to happen but my general impression from his message is that not much change is likely to be made here. Oh well, at least I tried.
Thanks for that. I didn't know that. I will try that.
01 Sep 13
Originally posted by divegeesterYou mean he is not only unpopular in the Science forum but he is even unpopular there as well? I wouldn't know because, although I used to go to Spirituality forum until I got wise to the fact it is so full of crap and it is a complete waste of time trying to debate anything there, I now just refuse to even ever look in that forum any more.
I think many posters in the Spirituality forum would be happy to see RJHinds posting curtailed.
I bet even many of the theists cannot stand his crap there!
01 Sep 13
6 edits
In addition, I haven't heard of anyone complaining about someone bringing a science debate into the Spirituality forum (my quote)
I now stand corrected for I have now just heard of someone actually seriously complaining bitterly about atheists 'hijacking' the Spirituality forum! I find it strange that this never happened when I used to go to the Spirituality forum!
OK then, in the light of this revelation, THIS is the new policy I NOW seriously propose:
There should be a new public forum called the “Science Versus Religion” forum for all science-versus-religion debates to go into.
That means All science-versus-religion debates are to be Banned from BOTH the Spirituality forum AND the Science forum.
Atheists, excluding those with religion (because some religions don't say there MUST be a god ), are to be banned from the Spirituality forum.
Those that have a genuine interest in science, including the few theists that have such a genuine interest, are allowed into the science forum BUT only if they stick to the science debate and do not inject the unscientific anti-evolution or anti-old Earth theory rhetoric into there because that is Creationism in disguise and is RELIGION. Any anti-evolution or young-Earth post there in the Science forum will be automatically removed. If anyone wants to discuss these issues, there are perfectly free to do so IN the Science Versus Religion forum.
Well? Any objections? Who agrees with this new proposal of mine?
The great thing as I see with this new policy is that it would stop once and for all the perennial bitter complaining and unhappiness generated by people hijacking forums.
Surely it would be worth having this change just for that reason alone!?
Excluding the bullies/trolls, surely that would make EVERYONE happier! -so what on earth could the bases of an objection to this be then?
01 Sep 13
1 edit
Originally posted by humyMaybe it is not clear whether your issue is with RJHinds posting ("his crap" ) in the science forum, or with anyone posting anything religious in the science forum.
You mean he is not only unpopular in the Science forum but he is even unpopular there as well? I wouldn't know because, although I used to go to Spirituality forum until I got wise to the fact it is so full of crap and it is a complete waste of time trying to debate anything there, I now just refuse to even ever look in that forum any more.
I bet even many of the theists cannot stand his crap there!