1000years

Originally posted by ua41
We can apply this to considering godly men/prophets or deities. It doesn't matter if Jesus was physically existent or not because others perceive him to be. The fact is we have entire social structures dedicated to things that may or may not exist- just ideals and perceptions (that's government/religious/etc.) and people will shape their lives around it.
Consi ...[text shortened]... inting and its unjust to claim any part not part of the picture 😵
keep up your posts beetle

How could I disagree with you regarding this issue?

The new -new to josephw, that is- metaphysics I am compelled, hits directly his hold on reality for it refutes his concept of a really existing external reality (to me, the Floating World is real but empty). However, although we all have almost radically different understandings of the nature of the observer universe, this has no effect on the way the mind-only ground of reality transmits its countless manifestations that they are rising in our dualistic world as various material appearances: once you want to survive, you have to breath. In fact we do not know what "exists" at the mind-only level -we can merely meditate on our personal mind-only level of existence and conduct our extrapolation regarding the nature of the other observers. Once more, it's only us😵

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
How delightful! I'm very pleased to make your acquaintance Mr Beetle sir.

How delightful to see that magnificent Black Cat dancing together with this black beetle; this beetle is very pleased to make your acquaintance, child of a noble family avalanchethecat😵

Originally posted by black beetle
How delightful to see that magnificent Black Cat dancing together with this black beetle; this beetle is very pleased to make your acquaintance, child of a noble family avalanchethecat😵

So do you consider, I wonder, that we are all sharing a consciousness? This seems a possibility to me. Otherwise I have understanding issues with the consensus we seem to have reached regarding the apparent physical reality.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
So do you consider, I wonder, that we are all sharing a consciousness? This seems a possibility to me. Otherwise I have understanding issues with the consensus we seem to have reached regarding the apparent physical reality.

I strongly believe we do share a consiousness, which is filtered and deciphered by each one of us according to her/ his evaluation of the mind😵

Originally posted by black beetle
I strongly believe we do share a consiousness, which is filtered and deciphered by each one of us according to her/ his evaluation of the mind😵

Hate to speak so generally, but I'm laymen when it comes to digging out all the specifics.
Religions, in general, tend to provide a context for a oneness, or a unity (whether that be a union with god or being created in the gods image, or abandoning the barriers we place between us and everything) and a reasoning as to why it isn't so already:
"Western" religions- profess sin nature as being unaligned with gods will
"Eastern" religions- profess being lost in delusion and illusion
Science tends to support a sense of all being of one thing with genetics and evolution and astronomy (even if we are to ignore the big bang calling for a beginning from one single point, we can see in our own solar system everything around us coming from one star which is the product of another star. We are all the same star material differently aligned, including the planets).
I also feel that both religion and science are mere observations placed into different contexts the very thing we experience so naturally there's going to be some overlapping. Just interesting to note how present a distinct voice of unity there is

Originally posted by ua41
Hate to speak so generally, but I'm laymen when it comes to digging out all the specifics.
Religions, in general, tend to provide a context for a oneness, or a unity (whether that be a union with god or being created in the gods image, or abandoning the barriers we place between us and everything) and a reasoning as to why it isn't so already:
"Western" relig ...[text shortened]... some overlapping. Just interesting to note how present a distinct voice of unity there is

Excellent😵

The extremely precice quantum experiments prove that the characteristics of the quantum entities that are investigated, they are not inherently real. This result is identical to shunyata -think of shunyata as the indicator of the inner nature of reality, which is understood as I explained previously not as “nothingness” but as an “independent origination”. Since I am aware of the fact that there is no phenomenon and no event fully independent, I am sure there is no such a thing as a self-sufficient and/ or self-enclosed entity.

It is my knowledge that everything is interdependent with everything, whilst shunyata is the ground of existence from which the possibilities of all phenomena arise. This means that all phenomena are of the same essential mind-only nature, whilst in the Floating World the phenomena are not endowed with fully manifested consiousness beamed by the higher sentient beings. There is no such a thing as an independent external reality, that is. And, since no phenomenon is a phenomenon before it becomes observable, whatever is not observer is no phenomenon at all.

So consiousness particioates in the establishment of reality by means of collapsing the wavefunction; and wavefunction allow us to determine the probabilities of various quantum events that they are established during an observation. Before this observation there is no experienced reality, thus anything goes in the realm of the non-manifested field of possibilities; but when consiousness comes in grips with the countless potentialities that are contained in the wavefunction, one possibility turns into reality and by the time of its manifestation all the other ones they remain non-manifested, thus they disappear into the realm of non-manifestation.
So all we have is a pool of “empty” probabilities: Shunyata! This is the reason why I told avalanchethecat that all observers are different manifestation of the same ultimate reality, which is mind-only.

I hope you comprehend😵

Originally posted by black beetle
Excellent😵

The extremely precice quantum experiments prove that the characteristics of the quantum entities that are investigated, they are not inherently real. This result is identical to shunyata -think of shunyata as the indicator of the inner nature of reality, which is understood as I explained previously not as “nothingness” but as an “indepen ...[text shortened]... erent manifestation of the same ultimate reality, which is mind-only.

I hope you comprehend😵

Sounds reasonable. Will meditate on it.

Originally posted by black beetle
I have my palace in the water but you cannot see it, because all you can see is a wave. But since you cannot understand due to the fact that your tradition excludes meditation, I will try to express myself another way😵

I know you believe the universe came into existence because your God created it. But the universe "exists" because we are aware of i ...[text shortened]... wards the fact that the physical reality of an object depends on how we choose to observe it😵

I wonder how deeply entrenched your mind is in this deception.

Youthinks reality is determined by your own thoughts. An idea that is as old as the hills, but cannot be substantiated by one shred of evidence.

Methinks reality is defined by it's creator. It is an observable objective concept that existed before the first human thought.

Meditation is not excluded from my faith. In fact, since I first acknowledged my creator in my consciousness, meditating upon all that is know to man has taken on a whole new dimension that transcends all systems of human imagination and thought. In spite of what you may think.

No. It wasn't immediate and all inclusive. It is painful. Imagine getting your own mind, i.e. thoughts and ideas, out of the way of the thoughts and ideas of the one that created you. Imagine that the idea of a creator being a fact. To dismiss the thought of a creator being a fact immediately allows for any other idea to enter in and take president.


There is no thought that has entered the mind of man loftier than the thought of a creator who in His infinite wisdom took on the form of a man.

Originally posted by josephw
I wonder how deeply entrenched your mind is in this deception.

Youthinks reality is determined by your own thoughts. An idea that is as old as the hills, but cannot be substantiated by one shred of evidence.

Methinks reality is defined by it's creator. It is an observable objective concept that existed before the first human thought.

Meditation is n ...[text shortened]... an loftier than the thought of a creator who in His infinite wisdom took on the form of a man.

I wonder how deeply entrenched your mind is in this deception.

Consider the incontrovertible evidence of the waveform collapse. There's a pretty solid 'shred' right there.

You thinks reality is defined by it's creator, an idea that is as old as the hills, but cannot be substantiated by one shred of evidence.

There is no thought....

IMHO there are freaking trillions of thoughts loftier than that.

Originally posted by josephw
I wonder how deeply entrenched your mind is in this deception.

Youthinks reality is determined by your own thoughts. An idea that is as old as the hills, but cannot be substantiated by one shred of evidence.

Methinks reality is defined by it's creator. It is an observable objective concept that existed before the first human thought.

Meditation is n ...[text shortened]... an loftier than the thought of a creator who in His infinite wisdom took on the form of a man.

There is no such a thing as "an observable objective concept that existed before the first human thought", for your so called "objective concept" that you attempt to describe is not related neither to an observed or to an observable by us event nor to an observed or to an observable by us phenomenon. This concept of yours is an unjustified belief based on your religious doctrine: I understand you believe in a definite inherently existent reality, however the process of reality is not inherently existent.

This thesis of mine is not substantiated merely by "one shred of evidence". It is solidly substantiated by specific scientific finds and evidence of our era, and also it is fully backed up by specific ancient philosophical systems that they focus at the full respect of life and are grounded on the concept of our profound interdependence with each other and with every observer, event and phenomenon contained in our kosmos😵

Originally posted by black beetle
There is no such a thing as "an observable objective concept that existed before the first human thought", for your so called "objective concept" that you attempt to describe is not related neither to an observed or to an observable by us event nor to an observed or to an observable by us phenomenon. This concept of yours is an unjustified belief based ...[text shortened]... ce with each other and with every observer, event and phenomenon contained in our kosmos😵

Separation of observer and phenomenon is inherent. I like how you mentioned the six senses as being misleading (also like how the mind is considered another sense), and such mentioned separation is a simple association of the mind. Kind of promotes and creates and ego and so its a natural follow up for a definite reality. And also establishes deistic foundations- or creator and created.
For me, an easy turning point here is realizing "what qualities do we associate with a creator/deity?" Any honest reflection finds qualities that have to be contrasted with us. We give the authority to creator/deity if its held in reference simply by being existent for how can there be a creator without creation? Realizing the two nurture each other in upholding and definition seems to break the distinction that much moreso between observer and phenomenon. We find this bleeds into a lot of aspects- a lot of our perspectives are because we view things from a bias of independent third party when really we are part of this transitory and relative flux that we try to define so concretely

Originally posted by ua41
Separation of observer and phenomenon is inherent. I like how you mentioned the six senses as being misleading (also like how the mind is considered another sense), and such mentioned separation is a simple association of the mind. Kind of promotes and creates and ego and so its a natural follow up for a definite reality. And also establishes deistic foundation ...[text shortened]... ly we are part of this transitory and [b]relative flux that we try to define so concretely[/b]

Separation of observer and phenomenon is dismissed in both quantum mechanics (superposition) and in the basic six schools that focus on shunyata, for there is no way to have the observer and the phenomenon inherently separated😵