a big flaw in the old testament..

Originally posted by RBHILL
Do you not know how big a cedar is.

But I will say you said one this smart on the 13th post on this subject.

Yes, I do. And any alligator that is chasing me is, I can promise you, as big as a cedar.

Originally posted by kirksey957
Maybe just a plain ole alligator.

Behemoth also eats grass like an ox. Therefore, not a gator. Job 40:15

Apparently there's also a translation where "tail" is translated instead as "penis".

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/job/40.html

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Behemoth also eats grass like an ox. Therefore, not a gator. Job 40:15

Apparently there's also a translation where "tail" is translated instead as "penis".

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/job/40.html

In that case, we can all dream.

Originally posted by rooktakesqueen
with all respect the answer is a little on the cheap side; i think the fact the dinosuars ruled the earth for over 150 million years is kinda an important point when talking about the history of our planet. to say the bible cannot cover all history is just rubbish - we are not talking a few years here! doesn't this just prove what rubbish the old test ...[text shortened]... rth long before man arrived... i doubt any christian has a good and relevant answer for that..!

The accounting of time in the Bible is according to God's priorities.

Sometimes in Scripture some years are wasted time according to God's accounting priorities.

Sometimes names are ommitted from geneologies because according to God's priorities those lives were wasted lives. Sometimes gaps are quickly leaped over with not much mention, because again those years were wasted years.

There is a general misunderstanding about the Bible that is exists only to tickle our curiosity about everything. Some people feel that it should do that if it is truly sourced in an all-knowing God.

No, the Bible does not always tickle our curiosity for its own sake.

Originally posted by jaywill
The accounting of time in the Bible is according to God's priorities.

Sometimes in Scripture some years are wasted time according to God's accounting priotities.

Sometimes names are ommitted from geneologies because according to God's priorities those lives were wasted lives. Sometimes gaps are quickly leaped over with not much mention, because a ...[text shortened]... an all-knowing God.

No, the Bible does not always tickle our curiosity for its own sake.

"The matter is quite simple. The Bible is easy to understand. But we Christians are a bunch of scheming swindlers. We pretend to be unable to understand it because we know very well that the minute we understand we are obliged to act accordingly."

Soren Kierkegaard

Originally posted by rooktakesqueen
with all respect the answer is a little on the cheap side; i think the fact the dinosuars ruled the earth for over 150 million years is kinda an important point when talking about the history of our planet. to say the bible cannot cover all history is just rubbish - we are not talking a few years here! doesn't this just prove what rubbish the old test ...[text shortened]... rth long before man arrived... i doubt any christian has a good and relevant answer for that..!

I don't know that dinosuars ruled the earth for 150 million years or 150 years. I know what the theories of men believe.

Do we really know how long dinosuars lived on the earth?

Originally posted by kirksey957
"The matter is quite simple. The Bible is easy to understand. But we Christians are a bunch of scheming swindlers. We pretend to be unable to understand it because we know very well that the minute we understand we are obliged to act accordingly."

Soren Kierkegaard

I think it is a fair point.

The Bible's main purpose is to convey God to people. That is not convey information about God only. That is to convey God.

The Bible is a book of life primarily to convey God so we could live by God.

Originally posted by jaywill
I don't know that dinosuars ruled the earth for 150 million years or 150 years. I know what the theories of men believe.

Do we really know how long dinosuars lived on the earth?

Do we really know the Bible is the word of God?

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Behemoth also eats grass like an ox. Therefore, not a gator. Job 40:15

Apparently there's also a translation where "tail" is translated instead as "penis".

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/job/40.html

Any penis that is chasing me is most definitely the size of cedar.

Originally posted by RBHILL
Red the Book of Job.
Job 40:17
His tail sways like a cedar

Oh, I figure that just means his tail's bushy and cute.

Originally posted by amannion
Do we really know the Bible is the word of God?

Well in my expience my regartd for the Bible as the word of God was a process and was gradual. I would say that the process is still taking place.

I came to Christ before I came to the Bible. However somehow the Christ I came to was from sharing with me and talking with me that was from the Bible. Though I was not so much aware of the source of the words I was hearing. Regardless eventually I received Christ and He as a living Person gained my utmost confidence.

Then I began to read philosophy of religion. This confused me until the Holy Spirit asked me why I would not read the Bible. So I felt that if I humbled myself to call on Jesus I could humble myself to read that funny old book the Bible. But I came cautiously and with a big filter. I was typically inundated with the modern thought and theory.

I started in the New Testament. The central figure of Jesus gradually won more and more of my trust. I developed a concept that Jesus was to be trusted. I noticed that He refered to many things in the Old Testament history which previously I was doubtful of. Somehow I arrived at the thought that if it was good enough for Jesus it most be okay. So then I started with the history of Genesis the most problematic book for me. Books like Psalms or Proverbs had no difficulties. But that Genesis with its creation account and Noah flood, etc. these I had been indoctrinated against by modern science.

I must confess that at this time I sought help in commentaries. I noticed that a certain class of books helping people to understand the Bible were the ones which brought me closer to Christ. They maintained the centrality of Christ in the Bible. The ones which departed from the centrality of Christ and wandered off into science were not of much help.

With Genesis the single most helpful study helps I received in the early years were Notes on the Pentateuch by C.H. Machintosh and Earth's Earliest Ages by G.H. Pember. But only the fist half of the book was used by God to help me. That was the detailed exposition of Genesis chapters one through six. This book followed a number of other ones which turned out to be of no use to me though they argued long and hard along their respective persuasions.


These helps in my reading fed my spirit with the same Christ I was nourished with in the New Testament and also seemed to be objectively well argued concerning method of interpretation. Then "The Life Study of Genesis" by Witness Lee was a tremendous help get through Genesis. The Invisible War by Donald Barnhouse was also helpful. The Mystery of Creation by Watchman Nee also was a great help to me in Genesis.

Having received such abundant help in Genesis, the big problem book to me, the rest of the books won my confidence.

There are always problems which people can point out. I do not have enough time in life to hunt down all of the thousands of objections that people have raised about this or that in the Bible. My working principle is two fold:

1.) I trust Jesus Christ explicitly and fully. If it was okay for Jesus it must be okay because I don't think there was one bit of decption or error anywhere in the mind and being of Jesus Christ.

2.) If the interpretation causes me to come closer to Christ then it is a safe interpretation. If it results in me having more of Christ then it is at least a safe interpretation.

Along with this I would add that it is important to see what is actually SAID in the Bible. Sometimes this requires looking into the original language. But even here you'll find differences of opinion. But generally, I want to first see what did it really say not what someone assumed by tradition what it said.

I did not come to believe that the entire Bible was the word of God in one instant. I came with a filter to the Bible. Gradually it won my confidence. I think most "problems" can be resolved which are of significance. Minor "problems" are usually the playthings of undiciplined minds distracted from the real important issues of life and Spirit and the growth of divine nature in the heart of the believer.

I don't want to waste time arguing the authenticity of the Word of God around minor curiosities. The knit picking of fault finders who strain out a knat but swallow a camel are of no interest to me. (Sometimes I may indulge, I confess).

And the few probably legitimate copyist's errors, like whether Solomon had 6,000 horses or 60,000 horses, etc., simply are not that important to me. Even these little copyist errors are sovreignly allowed by God perhaps to test our own hearts.

Do we get the point or are we experts at missing the point?
Will we strain out a knat and swallow a camel?
In arguing whether the Bible is the word of God or not will we do so focusing undue attention to very minor "problems" while ignoring the weightiest revelations on which the repetition and clarity leave little room for doubt what God means?

Originally posted by jaywill
Well in my expience my regartd for the Bible as the word of God was a process and was gradual. I would say that the process is still taking place.

I came to Christ before I came to the Bible. However somehow the Christ I came to was from sharing with me and talking with me that was from the Bible. Though I was not so much aware of the source of the words ...[text shortened]... ons on which the repetition and clarity leave little room for doubt what God means?

So, what philosophy of religion did you read?

Originally posted by bbarr
So, what philosophy of religion did you read?

The book I was reading when in prayer I felt that God said "Why not read the Bible?" was "The Nature and Destiny of Man" by Reinhold Niebuhr and Robin W. Lovin.

But I might be more accurate to discribe it as Theological Ethics than Philosohophy of Religion.

Originally posted by jaywill
1.) I trust Jesus Christ explicitly and fully. If it was okay for Jesus it must be okay because I don't think there was one bit of deception or error anywhere in the mind and being of Jesus Christ.

You clearly started with the premise that the new testament was accurate and that when Jesus refers to "scripture" he means the old testament. I am actually not aware of Jesus ever claiming that genesis was meant to be an accurate historical document.

Originally posted by twhitehead
You clearly started with the premise that the new testament was accurate and that when Jesus refers to "scripture" he means the old testament. I am actually not aware of Jesus ever claiming that genesis was meant to be an accurate historical document.

For example:

"Truly I say to you, It will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city" (Matthew 10:15)

"And you, Capernaum, who have beem exalted to heaven, to Hades you will be brought down. For if the works of power which took place in you had taken place in Sodom, it would have remained until today.

But I say to you that it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment than for you." (Matt. 11:23,24)

In this teaching of coming judgment Christ refers to the people of Sodom. It is unlikely that He would refer to fictional people concerning an actual day of judgment. Real judgment involves real persons not mythical ones.

The story of Sodom is in Genesis. So this argues that Jesus regarded Genesis as history.