To renounce what we cannot gain is not true renunciation, it is weakness.
Bowl of Saki, February 19, by Hazrat Inayat Khan
Commentary by Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan:
To renounce what we cannot gain is not true renunciation, it is weakness. When the apples are so high up on the branch of the tree that we cannot reach them, we try to and cannot, if we then say, "The apples are sour. I don't want them", that is not renunciation. If we climb the tree and get the apples and cut them in half, then we may say, "They are sour", and throw them away.
If we say, "I cannot have my wish. It is not intended by the will of God. I am resigned to the will of God", that is not resignation. Why should it not be meant for us to have our wish? Behind our will there is the will of God. God desires it through us. Christ said, "If ye desire bread, He will not give a stone". By this we see that it is natural for us to have our desire, it is natural for us to have health and riches and success and all things. It is unnatural to have illnesses and failures and miseries. But if, after gaining all the wealth in the world, position and titles, then we give it up, then that will be true renunciation.
http://wahiduddin.net/mv2/archives/attainment.htm
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Originally posted by rookie54Æsop. (Sixth century B.C.) Fables.
[b]To renounce what we cannot gain is not true renunciation, it is weakness.
Bowl of Saki, February 19, by Hazrat Inayat Khan
Commentary by Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan:
To renounce what we cannot gain is not true renunciation, it is weakness. When the apples are so high up on the branch of the tree that we cannot reach them, we try to and cannot, ...[text shortened]... it up, then that will be true renunciation.
http://wahiduddin.net/mv2/archives/attainment.htm[/b]
The Harvard Classics. 1909–14.
Quote:
The Fox and the Grapes
ONE hot summer’s day a Fox was strolling through an orchard till he came to a bunch of Grapes just ripening on a vine which had been trained over a lofty branch. “Just the things to quench my thirst,” quoth he. Drawing back a few paces, he took a run and a jump, and just missed the bunch. Turning round again with a One, Two, Three, he jumped up, but with no greater success. Again and again he tried after the tempting morsel, but at last had to give it up, and walked away with his nose in the air, saying: “I am sure they are sour.”
“IT IS EASY TO DESPISE WHAT YOU CANNOT GET.”
Unquote.
http://www.bartleby.com/17/1/31.html
Originally posted by rookie54Christ said, "If ye desire bread, He will not give a stone". By this we see that it is natural for us to have our desire, it is natural for us to have health and riches and success and all things.
[b]To renounce what we cannot gain is not true renunciation, it is weakness.
Bowl of Saki, February 19, by Hazrat Inayat Khan
Commentary by Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan:
To renounce what we cannot gain is not true renunciation, it is weakness. When the apples are so high up on the branch of the tree that we cannot reach them, we try to and cannot, ...[text shortened]... it up, then that will be true renunciation.
http://wahiduddin.net/mv2/archives/attainment.htm[/b]
Actually this goes against what Jesus taught. For example:
Matthew 6
19“Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20“But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal; 21for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
To understand what Jesus was saying about seeking and receiving you need to look at Luke 11 rather than Matthew 7. In Luke 11 it is made clear that Jesus is speaking of the Holy Spirit.
Luke 11
9“So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10“For everyone who asks, receives; and he who seeks, finds; and to him who knocks, it will be opened. 11“Now suppose one of you fathers is asked by his son for a fish; he will not give him a snake instead of a fish, will he? 12“Or if he is asked for an egg, he will not give him a scorpion, will he? 13“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”
Originally posted by JS357Never mind that.
Æsop. (Sixth century B.C.) Fables.
The Harvard Classics. 1909–14.
Quote:
The Fox and the Grapes
ONE hot summer’s day a Fox was strolling through an orchard till he came to a bunch of Grapes just ripening on a vine which had been trained over a lofty branch. “Just the things to quench my thirst,” quoth he. Drawing back a few paces, he took a run a ...[text shortened]... “IT IS EASY TO DESPISE WHAT YOU CANNOT GET.”
Unquote.
http://www.bartleby.com/17/1/31.html
Who drinks saki out of a bowl??
The religion of each one is the attainment of his soul's desire; when he is on the path of that attainment he is religious; when he is off that path then he is irreligious, impious.
Bowl of Saki, February 20, by Hazrat Inayat Khan
Commentary by Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan:
Religion is a need of the human soul. In all periods and at every stage of the evolution of humanity there has been a religion which people followed, for at every period the need for religion has been felt. The reason is that the soul of man has several deep desires, and these desires are answered by religion.
The first desire is the search for the ideal. There comes a time when man seeks for a more complete justice than he finds among men, and when he seeks for someone on whom he can rely more surely than he can on his friends in the world. There comes a time when man feels a desire to open his heart to a Being who is above human beings and who can understand his heart. ... He feels the need of asking forgiveness of someone who is above human pettiness, and of seeking refuge under someone stronger than he. And to all these natural human tendencies there is an answer which is given by religion, and that answer is God.
from http://wahiduddin.net/mv2/IX/IX_5.htm
The reformer comes to plow the ground; the prophet comes to sow the seed; and the priest comes to reap the harvest.
Bowl of Saki, February 21, by Hazrat Inayat Khan
Commentary by Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan:
There is the time of plowing, there is the time of sowing and there is the time of reaping the harvest. It is not all done at the same time.
from http://wahiduddin.net/mv2/III/III_I_6.htm
Originally posted by rookie54You are saying that all people seek after riches, success in all things, position and titles.
[b]To renounce what we cannot gain is not true renunciation, it is weakness.
Bowl of Saki, February 19, by Hazrat Inayat Khan
Commentary by Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan:
To renounce what we cannot gain is not true renunciation, it is weakness. When the apples are so high up on the branch of the tree that we cannot reach them, we try to and cannot, ...[text shortened]... it up, then that will be true renunciation.
http://wahiduddin.net/mv2/archives/attainment.htm[/b]
You are wrong. Or rather Mr. Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan is wrong. Is he some kind of guru or yours?
Of all the things you mentioned the only thing you can say that all people would like to have is good health and happiness [ie the absence of misery]. And NO, material possessions cannot and do not produce happy people.
It is not necessary to actually have certain things to know that you do not care for them.
Life is an opportunity given to satisfy the hunger and thirst of the soul.
Bowl of Saki, February 22, by Hazrat Inayat Khan
Commentary by Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan:
And what is life? Life is an opportunity. To the optimistic person the opportunity is a promise, and for the pessimistic person this opportunity is lost. It is not that the Creator makes man lose it, but it is man who withdraws himself from the possibility of seizing the opportunity.
http://wahiduddin.net/mv2/XIV/XIV_2_9.htm
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Originally posted by ThinkOfOneBeen studying the Bible ? We are aware of the nuances of difference between the Luke record of the passage and the Matthew version.
[b]Christ said, "If ye desire bread, He will not give a stone". By this we see that it is natural for us to have our desire, it is natural for us to have health and riches and success and all things.
Actually this goes against what Jesus taught. For example:
Matthew 6
19“Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust de ...[text shortened]... dren, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”[/b]
I don't really see as you seem to that one is against the other.
Good things = the Holy Spirit = Good things given by the Father.
Originally posted by sonshipC'mon Jaywill, when are you going to accept that your reading skills are sub par? When you don't understand what someone has posted, it'd be better if you asked questions rather than pretend that you have.
Been studying the Bible ? We are aware of the nuances of difference between the Luke record of the passage and the Matthew version.
I don't really see as you seem to that one is [b]against the other.
Good things = the Holy Spirit = Good things given by the Father.[/b]
Been studying the Bible ?
Based on what you've posted over the years, it's clear that I understand the teachings of Jesus while He walked the Earth much better than you.
We are aware of the nuances of difference between the Luke record of the passage and the Matthew version.
Think about the statements that my post was addressing and read my post again.
I don't really see as you seem to that one is against the other.
I didn't say they were. Read my post again.
Good things = the Holy Spirit = Good things given by the Father.
No kidding.
Originally posted by SuzianneThis should help you to understand the title.
Never mind that.
Who drinks saki out of a bowl??
The Arabic word [saki] literally means wine-server or wine-pourer and is frequently used in Persian poetry to describe the glorious Server who continually pours out the wine everlasting to all of mankind, while implying that only a completely empty bowl is truly ready to be filled with such a fine wine. For the Sufi, the greatest task of life is to become empty enough, selfless enough, to be a suitable receptacle for the wine which the[saki] pours.
In some cases, the word [saki]; may be used as a reference to a specific spiritual teacher, but in the grand scheme of things, a spiritual teacher is merely a worldly symbol for the presence of the Beloved, the One and Only One.
Some say that in order to be grammatically correct, the title should have been written as "The Bowl of the [saki]" but frankly that title is rather clumsy and lacks poetry... so, perhaps the present title The Bowl of Saki was never intended to be grammatically correct, but may instead be a playful bit of British humor that intertwines the mystical Persian imagery with the thought of the oriental rice wine that has a similar sounding name. It is doubtful that we will ever know exactly how the book title The Bowl of Saki was created, but really the more important matter is to understand the deep significance of the word [saki]; and of the bowl, which might also be called a cup, or chalice.
http://wahiduddin.net/saki/saki_origins.htm
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Originally posted by ThinkOfOneMaybe I didn't read your post carefully enough or the post to which it was a reaction.
C'mon Jaywill, when are you going to accept that your reading skills are sub par? When you don't understand what someone has posted, it'd be better if you asked questions rather than pretend that you have.
[b]Been studying the Bible ?
Based on what you've posted over the years, it's clear that I understand the teachings of Jesus while He walked ...[text shortened]... gain.
Good things = the Holy Spirit = Good things given by the Father.
No kidding.[/b]
Criticism accepted.
Oh, that is absolutely splendid that you far far better understand the teaching of Jesus as He walked the earth. That's imperial.
What does John 3:13 mean ? Any idea ?
Truth alone can succeed; falsehood is a waste of time and loss of energy.
Bowl of Saki, February 23, by Hazrat Inayat Khan
Commentary by Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan:
Falsehood, whatever its apparent success, has its limitations and its end. For at every step the false person will feel falseness; and with every step a person takes towards falsehood, he will feel his feet growing heavier and heavier when he encounters the truth, while those who walk towards the truth will feel their feet becoming lighter with every step they take.
from http://wahiduddin.net/mv2/X/X_4_2.htm
Do not fear God, but consciously regard His pleasure and displeasure.
Bowl of Saki, February 24, by Hazrat Inayat Khan
Commentary by Pir-o-Murshid Inayat Khan:
The religion of the Sufi is the religion of the heart. The principal moral of the Sufi is to consider the heart of others, so that in the pleasure and displeasure of his fellow-man he sees the pleasure and displeasure of God.
~~~ "Complete Works, Original Texts, Feb 26, 1924", by Hazrat Inayat Khan
There are four paths or stages that lead a person to spiritual knowledge, from the limited to the unlimited.
The first stage is Shariat. This is where the God-ideal is impressed upon mankind as authority, as fear of God. This really means conscientiousness, not fear as is usually thought. If we love, we do not wish to displease; love does not force us to act, but it asks us to be conscientious and take care not to cause the least disharmony with the one whose happiness we want. ...
This stage of Shariat is that in which a person asks himself what will please Him, or displease Him. He learns his religion from his parents, from his friends. A good action pleases, a bad action displeases, and pride displeases most; he learns everything very easily by seeing what displeases another. How easy it is; and yet they still go to a clergyman or to a priest, to ask what pleases God. And all the time it is just what pleases man that pleases God, and therefore if we please all around us, we please God; if we displease them, we displease God. A man who has attained to this stage realizes what reward comes to him when he pleases the world, and what happens when he does not.
from http://wahiduddin.net/mv2/VII/VII_3.htm