12 Sep 12
Originally posted by twhiteheadYou want an excellent example of a totally ignorant Believer in Christ, who doesn't know diddly squat about proper witnessing procedures and correct protocols for executing the Christian Life?
When I try to convince others of my beliefs (or lack thereof) I do not try to coerce them.
Do you see coercion as the only way to convince others of your beliefs?
Do you only ever change your belief under pressure?
When you do 'change' your beliefs, is it really pretence in order to avoid getting mentally slapped?
You do. Okay. I've got something to show you. Be right back.
12 Sep 12
At the County Fair, 1956
For a nickel, a machine
called An Expression of Faith
would take your dime
and squash it.
All tubes and gears and lights,
the thing would groan, squeak,
fart, smoke, and finally drop
a little silver oval in your hands,
hot as a pistol,
with Jesus’ face on one side
and the Lord's Prayer on the other.
I took my medallion
home for Grandma,
but she wouldn't keep it
because it was Catholic
and had "trespasses"
instead of "debts"
and left out the part
about the kingdom
and the power and the glory.
She gave it back
and I went downtown
and set it on the railroad track.
And after the train went by
I had a piece of silver
smooth as glass and that
says something about
power and glory, by God.
-Charles Darling
12 Sep 12
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyAs a well known footballer here yelled triumphantly on winning the Aussie Rules Grand Final, "That's what I am talkin about."
[b]At the County Fair, 1956
For a nickel, a machine
called An Expression of Faith
would take your dime
and squash it.
All tubes and gears and lights,
the thing would groan, squeak,
fart, smoke, and finally drop
a little silver oval in your hands,
hot as a pistol,
with Jesus’ face on one side
and the Lord' ...[text shortened]... s and that
says something about
power and glory, by God.
-Charles Darling[/b]
Good stuff. Thank you. Good Christians are really good Christians.
Perspective from a cross.
12 Sep 12
Originally posted by TaomanBut the grandmother only rejected it because it was 'Catholic.' It's a petty, doctrinal dispute, and not a broader point about the impropriety of expressing ones faith through base and petty means. If the trinket had been properly 'Protestant', then the grandmother would have cherished it.
As a well known footballer here yelled triumphantly on winning the Aussie Rules Grand Final, "That's what I am talkin about."
Good stuff. Thank you. Good Christians are really good Christians.
Perspective from a cross.
12 Sep 12
Originally posted by rwingettSure, if it had been a complete and proper Lord's Prayer. However, this was apparently a mutilation of something sacred to her.
But the grandmother only rejected it because it was 'Catholic.' It's a petty, doctrinal dispute, and not a broader point about the impropriety of expressing ones faith through base and petty means. If the trinket had been properly 'Protestant', then the grandmother would have cherished it.
12 Sep 12
Originally posted by rwingettThe pointing out of the pettiness got me. And the shiny silver now with nothing on it to argue about, pettiness squashed out of sight.
But the grandmother only rejected it because it was 'Catholic.' It's a petty, doctrinal dispute, and not a broader point about the impropriety of expressing ones faith through base and petty means. If the trinket had been properly 'Protestant', then the grandmother would have cherished it.
Pettiness is like wood termites to wider vision.
To me, there is wider vision in the poem, contrasting with the too often seen small view. That is good. Bit by bit, opening eyes see more.
12 Sep 12
Originally posted by TaomanOne more quote (on point with respect to viewpoint) from the venerable New England Poet, Robert Frost:
The pointing out of the pettiness got me. And the shiny silver now with nothing on it to argue about, pettiness squashed out of sight.
Pettiness is like wood termites to wider vision.
To me, there is wider vision in the poem, contrasting with the too often seen small view. That is good. Bit by bit, opening eyes see more.
"I never dared to be radical when young
For fear it would make me conservative when old."
13 Sep 12
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyDoes that mean Robert Frost was a confirmed atheist and not inspired by God?
One more quote (on point with respect to viewpoint) from the venerable New England Poet, Robert Frost:
"I never dared to be radical when young
For fear it would make me conservative when old."
Sounds like it to me. However, I do not know the man, even though I have heard his name before.
13 Sep 12
So what was Frost really? Old Testament Christian or atheist?
Elinor Frost, his wife, thought he was, like her, an atheist. In 1920 (the couple had then been married twenty-five years) Frost confided to Louis Untermeyer:
Elinor has just come out flat-footed against God conceived either as the fourth person seen with Shadrack, Meshack, and Tobedwego [sic] in the fiery furnace or without help by the Virgin Mary. How about as a Shelleyan principal or spirit coeternal with the rock part of creation, I ask. Nonsense and you know it's nonsense Rob Frost, only you're afraid you'll have bad luck or lose your standing in the community if you speak your mind.
Frost neither confirmed nor denied the accusation. A part of him, the rational part, must have known his wife was right. But in the subterranean recesses of his mind, the ancient fear continued to lurk.
Toward the end, his piety hardened. In his last letter, written a few days before he died, he insisted we cannot save ourselves unaided. "Salvation," he said, "we will never have from anyone but God."
http://www.eclectica.org/v7n2/sloan.html
13 Sep 12
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyMy problem is Christianity is not the religion of peace, neither is Islam. They have been at loggerheads for a thousand years and continues to this day. That all screams to me, besides the suppression of women, as religions totally 100% made by men to control other men and suppress women and to start religious wars. Christians have in the past been just as bad or worse as present day muslims in forcing their religion on people of other cultures who would never convert without coercion.
[b]A Confirmed Atheist, Charlie, Cynthia and Jan
Why do many confirmed atheists A) Vibrate over the mere mention of God (The Father); B) Christ (The Son, the God-Man in Hypostatic Union during the Church Age); C) The Holy Spirit (Third Person of The Trinity, who though invisible reveals the accurate and absolute truth contained in the inspired Wo ...[text shortened]... s just move on. How about seeing a recently released movie tonight with Cynthia and Jan" ?[/b]
13 Sep 12
Originally posted by RJHindsUncertainty seems to prevail among scholars. Yet, a closer read suggests the man was definitley a seeker who, accurately,
Does that mean Robert Frost was a confirmed atheist and not inspired by God?
Sounds like it to me. However, I do not know the man, even though I have heard his name before.
felt his own goodness and good works were totally insufficent to satisfy the integrity (justice and righteousness) of God.
http://www.eclectica.org/v7n2/sloan.html
15 Sep 12
5 edits
Originally posted by sonhouseI have a keen sense of objectivity and can certainly sympathize with onyone whom, from the outside looking in, might conclude that Christianity is "not a religion of peace." However... some context is needed here. A lot of it. First of all, what exactly is a "religion of peace?" Would it be strict, unabated, pacificism? (by the way, if so, look no further than the Quakers who are fervent Christians and pacifists)
My problem is Christianity is not the religion of peace, neither is Islam. They have been at loggerheads for a thousand years and continues to this day. That all screams to me, besides the suppression of women, as religions totally 100% made by men to control other men and suppress women and to start religious wars. Christians have in the past been just as ...[text shortened]... in forcing their religion on people of other cultures who would never convert without coercion.
Few religions can boast of being purely pacifist. But anyway the point I want to make is, the Old Testament conquests should not be tossed into the mixing bowl and blended in with bona fide Christianity because they are 2 completely separate things. No, I am not saying we Christians disavow loving our God who is the God of the Old Testament (and New). It's that we Christians--being Christian afterall--have a clear understanding of the demarcation between the Old and New Covenants. The New Covenant did away with aggression. That's not to say we should tolerate severe acts against innocent people (most Christians would defend a woman being raped in an alley, for example.. not walk away)... but, the New Covenant goes past and beyond acts of aggression, conquest, and violence.
That being said, Jesus made it clear that Christianity is NOT a religion of peace. Not for the reason you may think; we are not supposed to seek war against any other people including Muslims. No. But he said it's not a religion of peace because he--in his ultimate wisdom--knew that when people turn Christian, it sets us against the rest of the world--resulting in violence. So, he knew following him would not bring peace; not because we are not peaceful, but because the world outside Christianity is hostile toward Christ and Christians.
And anyone who thinks that is inaccurate must live under a rock, because it's an established fact, all over the world.