@divegeester saidSure, and God instituted the New Covenant in reaction to the insincerity of Jews who lived under the Old Covenant.
Of course it doesn’t.
The Torah was “recited” every day in the synagogues of Jesus’ time.
“Hear the word of the Lord, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.”
(Isaiah 1:10-15)
@rajk999 saidBefore Jesus healed anyone, He always asked if they had faith and believed if He could do it. He never asked if they had kept the commandments and how many sins they had committed.
Christians are full of boastful talk about their profession of faith, as demonstrated in this thread. Ask them about the lifestyle that Paul and the Apostles lived, and if their church follows that as well. Here is one example:
[i]And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. And fear came upon every soul: ...[text shortened]... andments are the ones that love Jesus Christ.
These are the ones who will enter the Kingdom of God.
Saving belief in Jesus Christ as the Messiah comes first and is all that is needed for everlasting life. Good works are a result of salvation, not a requirement of it.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidPaul is speaking to believers here. He is not an atheist using the word “recite” as a pejorative.
'Then you will recite to one another psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs; you will sing and make music to the Lord with your hearts.'
Ephes 5:19
@ghost-of-a-duke saidAgain, not being used as a pejorative here, as it was used by FMF in this thread (at least that is the obvious way in which it was intended, imo.)
'This book of instruction must not depart from your mouth; you are to recite it day and night so that you may carefully observe everything written in it. For then you will prosper and succeed in whatever you do.'
Josh 1:8
20 Mar 23
@plantermoo saidYou have some evidence of this, or are you just making it up?
Sure, and God instituted the New Covenant in reaction to the insincerity of Jews who lived under the Old Covenant.
20 Mar 23
@plantermoo said“In your mind” anything could imply anything you want it to.
Recitation, in my mind, implies insincerity. In that way, it’s incompatible with saving belief.
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20 Mar 23
@plantermoo said"Recitation, in my mind, implies insincerity."
Paul is speaking to believers here. He is not an atheist using the word “recite” as a pejorative.
Your words. Own them.
20 Mar 23
@divegeester said“Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
You have some evidence of this, or are you just making it up?
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
(Jeremiah 31:31-34)
“To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.”
(Isaiah 1:11-15)
20 Mar 23
@divegeester saidSure, I’m speaking my opinion and from my point of view - just like everyone else
“In your mind” anything could imply anything you want it to.
20 Mar 23
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@ghost-of-a-duke saidI do own them.
"Recitation, in my mind, implies insincerity."
Your words. Own them.
But the Bible wasn’t originally written in English and I’d have to know the Hebrew and Greek words translated as recite and recitation in the New Testament to have a full understanding. And whether those Hebrew and Greek words for recite carry an insincere connotation as it does in English.
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20 Mar 23
@plantermoo saidBeing told to 'recite it day and night' is not some cryptic instruction and certainly not one you should view as an insincere practice.
I do own them.
But the Bible wasn’t originally written in English and I’d have to know the Hebrew and Greek words translated as recite and recitation in the New Testament to have a full understanding. And whether those Hebrew and Greek words for recite carry an insincere connotation as it does in English.
20 Mar 23
@ghost-of-a-duke saidWhat is the word from which recite was chosen in English?
Being told to 'recite it day and night' is not some cryptic instruction and certainly not one you should view as an insincere practice.
20 Mar 23
@plantermoo saidChurch BS... you dont know your bible.
Before Jesus healed anyone, He always asked if they had faith and believed if He could do it. He never asked if they had kept the commandments and how many sins they had committed.
Saving belief in Jesus Christ as the Messiah comes first and is all that is needed for everlasting life. Good works are a result of salvation, not a requirement of it.
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. (Revelation 22:14-15 KJV)
Those who keep the commandments get eternal life.
Those who dont get cast out