A Serious Question: Pangea

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Are you a creationist?

What is a creationist? Someone who believes in the literal 6-day creation? Or simply someone who believes we were all created?

I would think that a creationist is someone who just thinks we are all created. As the good Doctor didn't say "Biblical Creationist" this has to be assumed. However, only Biblical Creationists/Bible Worshippers would be bothered by Pangea--as if it has anything to do with any relationship with God! I mean really. Are there Biblical Creationists out there who actually think that God rejects those who believe that Pangea, and the dinosaurs, etc. occured and took the millions years it probably did? Sheesh! Think people! The Bible is important, but it was written by man and is therefore subject to the limitations of man (such as an often skewed concept of time among many others).

Originally posted by RatX
Are you a thiestic evolutionist?

Fossils to test our faith? Funny one...

Are you a thiestic evolutionist?

I guess so.

Fossils to test our faith? Funny one...

My point exactly. If BdN is serious about "trying on the literal creationist hat", then he must adopt a position based on what they actually believe in, as opposed what people might think they believe in.

Originally posted by RatX
Are you a thiestic evolutionist?

Fossils to test our faith? Funny one...

Whether you believe in Genesis or not, you can engage in the exercise of trying to reconcile very old fossils with the very young earth indicated in the text, as well as with the text's one-day gap between the emergence of various types of life. The "test our faith" hypothesis is the cleanest and most obvious resoultion. Once you move on to others, you must start rejecting pieces of Genesis as being literally true.

At least one of our regulars holds to this very belief and has invoked it numerous times. I think it was Coletti, KellyJay or pcaspian.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
This is the third installment in my "A Serious Question" series. The first two have been a success, marked by reasonable, on-topic discussion directly addressing the question at hand. Hopefully we may continue in that vein.

This week's question: Do creationists believe in Pangea - the idea that all of earth's continents used to be interlock ...[text shortened]... rizes your beliefs about Pangea. I will be happy to entertain wholly different options as well.

You can find many types of creationists, from Islamic, through to the big bangers. As for me, I am one who believes the bible creation account, and I take that to be a literal creation period of six days. That would mean I would give you 3) as my answer.
Genesis 10:25 mentions Peleg, a grandson of Noah who was so named because in his days the earth was divided. Peleg is a name that means Earthquake.
The land mass that we have today was even larger before the global flood, as most of the water from the flood is still here. What caused the earthquake, I do not know for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was something to do with all the weight of the water on the crust of the earth.

Originally posted by thesonofsaul
However, only Biblical Creationists/Bible Worshippers would be bothered by Pangea--as if it has anything to do with any relationship with God!

Does it have any less to do with God than evolution does?

Land [which God created, and saw that it was good!] over time has morphed into something drastically different through natural processes.

Life [which God created, and saw that it was good!] over time has morphed into something drastically different through natural processes.

How can creationists get all up in arms about scientists making one claim but not the other?

Originally posted by Halitose
I would support (3).

Just FYI, my favourite proponent of Catastrophic plate tectonics is Dr John Baumgardner, working at the Los Alamos National Laboratories (New Mexico, USA), who has used supercomputers to model processes in the earth’s mantle to show that tectonic plate movement could have occurred very rapidly, and ‘spontaneously’.

http:// ...[text shortened]... how the theory works:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/AnswersBook/continental11.asp

How do you explain the FACT that earth is welling up in the
mid atlantic rift? You can measure the rate of expansion and clearly
see the movement and see how the magnetic fields have been frozen
into its present shape after cooling and it shows quite clearly actions
taking place on a scale of millions of years. How can a creationist
possibly refute that evidence? If something like that were to happen
say, on the order of weeks, there would be very little left in the way
of life on earth, it would be jumbled so bad most of the earths surface
would be under thousands of feet of magma. Why is that so hard to
understand. I think its because you don't WANT to look at such
evidence, just like the ones condemning galileo by refusing to look
through his telescope. Can't be double stars, it has to be a defect in
your telescope I beleive was the argument when only one star was
showing double. Thats exactly how creationists hide their head in the
sand.
Another point that seems never to have been addressed when I bring
it up is the 7 day creation myth. You seem to be fully convinced it
was written by god to be included in the bible however I went to
Egypt and saw the incredible Cairo Museum and saw with my own eyes
the 7 day creation myth in cartuche carved in stone about 4000 years
old. There is some evidence it goes back even farther than that.
So your 7 day creation myth is just a plagerized story that had been
around at LEAST 2000 years before the bible was supposedly written
by "god". So why don't you answer that charge, eh?

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Does it have any less to do with God than evolution does?

Land [which God created, and saw that it was good!] over time has morphed into something drastically different through natural processes.

Life [which God created, and saw that it was good!] over time has morphed into something drastically different through natural processes.

How can creationists get all up in arms about scientists making one claim but not the other?

Got me there. Evolution doesn't have any less to do with God. Unless The Bible is God, but that is a topic for a completely different thread.

Originally posted by sonhouse

Another point that seems never to have been addressed when I bring
it up is the 7 day creation myth. You seem to be fully convinced it
was written by god to be included in the bible however I went to
Egypt and saw the incredible Cairo Museum and saw with my own eyes
the 7 day creation myth in cartuche carved in stone about 4000 years
old. There is s ...[text shortened]... s before the bible was supposedly written
by "god". So why don't you answer that charge, eh?

This charge interests me as well. I will research it and make it the subject of my next Serious Question.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Another point that seems never to have been addressed when I bring it up is the 7 day creation myth. You seem to be fully convinced it was written by god to be included in the bible however I went to
Egypt and saw the incredible Cairo Museum and saw with my own eyes
the 7 day creation myth in cartuche carved in stone about 4000 years
old. There is some ...[text shortened]... s before the bible was supposedly written
by "god". So why don't you answer that charge, eh?

What do you mean by cartuche? Do you mean cartouche? I'm afraid I don't understand what you are describing. Does it have a name? Are there any web links describing this artifact?

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
This charge interests me as well. I will research it and make it the subject of my next Serious Question.

the 7 day myth may go back as far as or even before the
Zoroastrians which predates Egypt.

Originally posted by thesonofsaul
What do you mean by cartuche? Do you mean cartouche? I'm afraid I don't understand what you are describing. Does it have a name? Are there any web links describing this artifact?

Sorry, mis-spelled. Cartouche is right, the carvings in stone
called hieroglyphics. Scuse me! The 7 day myth was carved in stone
about 4000 years ago and is probably older than that.
I googled in the 7 day story and it overwhelmingly comes back the
genesis version, no referance to anything older. Suspicious.
There are also drawings in the burial chambers of the 7 day myth.

Originally posted by sonhouse
How do you explain the FACT that earth is welling up in the
mid atlantic rift? You can measure the rate of expansion and clearly
see the movement and see how the magnetic fields have been frozen
into its present shape after cooling and it shows quite clearly actions
taking place on a scale of millions of years. How can a creationist
possibly refute tha ...[text shortened]... s before the bible was supposedly written
by "god". So why don't you answer that charge, eh?

How do you explain the FACT that earth is welling up in the
mid atlantic rift?

I'm sorry, did you read my post carefully. I never in any way suggested that continental drift is not occuring at present. All I suggested was that the rate may have been different in the past. If you wish to stick to the uniformatariast view that the present is the key to the past, you may gladly do so, but don't tout your's as fact and mine as speculation, they are both eons away from observable empiracle science.

it shows quite clearly actions taking place on a scale of millions of years.

Once again I have to question your sound science in this matter. Did it have a label citing how long it's been happening? You are suggesting that the motion of the earth's crust was linear, while I'm asserting that we might be witnessing the fading end of exponential motion. None of us can conclusively prove it either way, so I resent your claim that I'm being closed minded on the issue.

If something like that were to happen say, on the order of weeks, there would be very little left in the way of life on earth, it would be jumbled so bad most of the earths surface would be under thousands of feet of magma.

Evidence please!

You can measure the rate of expansion and clearly see the movement and see how the magnetic fields have been frozen into its present shape after cooling and it shows quite clearly actions taking place on a scale of millions of years.

Are you talking about the "magnetic reversals" embeded in magnetic rock? Those are not reversals pal, but merely measurements of stronger and weaker magnetism. They don't prove anything.

Why is that so hard to understand. I think its because you don't WANT to look at such evidence, just like the ones condemning galileo by refusing to look through his telescope. Can't be double stars, it has to be a defect in your telescope I beleive was the argument when only one star was showing double. Thats exactly how creationists hide their head in the sand.

It is exactly this kind of closed-minded intolerance Dr S is trying to remedy. You don't seem very keen to hear the ID side either - I wonder why,,,,

Another point that seems never to have been addressed when I bring it up is the 7 day creation myth. You seem to be fully convinced it was written by god to be included in the bible however I went to Egypt and saw the incredible Cairo Museum and saw with my own eyes the 7 day creation myth in cartuche carved in stone about 4000 years old. There is some evidence it goes back even farther than that. So your 7 day creation myth is just a plagerized story that had been around at LEAST 2000 years before the bible was supposedly written by "god". So why don't you answer that charge, eh?

You are commiting the post hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy here. Just because its older doesn't mean it was stolen from there, or that creation is a myth, or that they had anything to do with each other. So why don't you answer that charge, eh?

I think we will go a long way if we are a bit more tolerant of each other's views and can converse in a civil manner without vitriol and prejudice flying around.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Sorry, mis-spelled. Cartouche is right, the carvings in stone
called hieroglyphics. Scuse me! The 7 day myth was carved in stone
about 4000 years ago and is probably older than that.
I googled in the 7 day story and it overwhelmingly comes back the
genesis version, no referance to anything older. Suspicious.
There are also drawings in the burial chambers of the 7 day myth.

Okay. I was of the understanding that a cartouche was a specific carving indicating royalty or Egyptian uppity-ups, not a generic term for stone carving. I really don't know much about it, though. I had the same problem with my own Google--no reference to anything older than the authoring of Genesis. If you find anything, please post it!

Originally posted by Halitose
[b]How do you explain the FACT that earth is welling up in the
mid atlantic rift?

I'm sorry, did you read my post carefully. I never in any way suggested that continental drift is not occuring at present. All I suggested was that the rate may have been different in the past. If you wish to stick to the uniformatariast view that the present is the k ...[text shortened]... h other's views and can converse in a civil manner without vitriol and prejudice flying around.[/b]

D@mn! I'd hoped to throw this at sonhouse (who could be mentored by turdstomp, just missing the Enuma Elish as the apparent source for Genesis). Pity Hal is so restrained, his post could have been so well peppered with ad hominems and other delightful pokes at sonny's small mind...

Another refreshing reminder of the "stompingaboutbeatingchestandyellingatthosewhodon'tbelieveinyourgenius" mentality that is so pervasive.

Sonny, post hoc ergo propter hoc is a nice way of saying, "don't yell your view too loud, it's actually a little over your head".

This is what I gathered from your reasoning:
1. There is a 7-day Creation retelling in Genesis
2. There is an apparently older 7-day Creation retelling on a stone tablet in Cairo.
3. Therefore, this logically and conclusively leads from (1) and (2), that the 7-day Creation retelling in Genesis is a myth.

Fascinating!

"saw it with my own eyes!!!"

This ain't show-and-tell dude.😞 I saw a lot with "my own eyes!!!", including much wisdom and genius on Discovery channel, MTV and the like.

Originally posted by sonhouse
How do you explain the FACT that earth is welling up in the
mid atlantic rift? You can measure the rate of expansion and clearly
see the movement and see how the magnetic fields have been frozen
into its present shape after cooling and it shows quite clearly actions
taking place on a scale of millions of years. How can a creationist
possibly refute tha ...[text shortened]... s before the bible was supposedly written
by "god". So why don't you answer that charge, eh?

just like the ones condemning galileo by refusing to look
through his telescope.

Just thought I had to respond to this one. Actually, they did look through his telescope and found that his theory was no better than Brahe's.

EDIT: Actually, given the assumption of a much smaller universe that both Galileo and Brahe worked on, Brahe's model was better.