15 May 07
2 edits
Originally posted by ahosyneyCite the case.
I don't think so, I know a case where that happens.
Are you perhaps referring to a civil case involving a minor, in which a parent must pay civil damages for something his minor child did? This is very different than what you describe. Here, the parent is the responsible party; the parent doesn't pay merely in virtue of the child lacking money. There, a family member is found to be guilty of a crime but another family member must pay criminal restitution simply in virtue of the criminal himself not having funds to pay restitution.
15 May 07
Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
You tell me:
because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sle ...[text shortened]... is High, Great.
[b]Men are the maintainers of women
This sure reads like a chapter out of Iceberg Slim's Pimp to me.When post in this forum I do so because I think I talk to respectable people who claim that they do respect others , specialy because the appear to care much about human rights, but It seems it is a waste of time.
Thank for your time, I'm not going to waste more of my time with you. Actually I'm sorry that I started this debate from the begining, it is useless.
15 May 07
Originally posted by ahosyneyI have been very respectful to you, particularly in accommodating your English skills.
When post in this forum I do so because I think I talk to respectable people who claim that they do respect others , specialy because the appear to care much about human rights, but It seems it is a waste of time.
Thank for your time, I'm not going to waste more of my time with you. Actually I'm sorry that I started this debate from the begining, it is useless.
15 May 07
1 edit
Just a final word to any one may read this thread and my posts in it,
I have to point out that I'm a simple Muslim, wanted to share his knowlage about Islam with you, I may have made a mistake in any of the topic presented here, and also my English skills are not that good. So please don't use my words as a representation of Islam, please do some readings about the topics raised here, there are more information you can find.
Thank you
15 May 07
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesIf you really want to be accomodating, you should post in Arabic. Give the man a break. Wife beating is quite widespread in the good old US of A, so let's get off our high horse.
I have been very respectful to you, particularly in accommodating your English skills.
I am not a Muslim, but I have lived in Islamic countries. There is as much wife beating there as there is here, but you can send your little children out to play without having to worry about some sick @#@$$@#$ raping and killing them.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 6:42 Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.
(King James Bible, Luke)
15 May 07
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesPersonally, I can think of at least 5 or 6 women that could really do with a good beating. Are you sure that this rule only applies to husbands/wives as I came across this harlot at Kinkos that needs a full, drawn back, open handed slap upside the head? Similarly, I have an enormously fat, vaguely stale milk smelling woman at the DMV that needs a cattle prod taking to her.
A light beating using a 5cm by 8mm stick that a man might use to pick his teeth in order to communicate and correct a woman's disobedience. My claims still hold under this definition, although I'm quite sure that the Dubai court case that I cited was using a much broader definition of the term.
Do you think a woman's human rights are respected by ...[text shortened]... law that allows such a beating, especially given the legal theory from which the law derives?
16 May 07
Originally posted by ahosyneyJust curious, ahosyney, if a poor uneducated man marries a highly educated woman from a very rich family; and then that woman ends up earning for the family, does she have the right to beat up her husband? Thanks.
Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women).
16 May 07
Originally posted by ckoh1965Now you can understand why some muslims discourage the education of women.
Just curious, ahosyney, if a poor uneducated man marries a highly educated woman from a very rich family; and then that woman ends up earning for the family, does she have the right to beat up her husband? Thanks.
16 May 07
1 edit
Originally posted by twhiteheadPerhaps the authors of the holy books of all those years ago did not foresee the possibility of women becoming cleverer and being independent; let alone becoming the breadwinners. Therefore the possibility of women becoming the 'head' of the family was not provided for in the holy books.
Now you can understand why some muslims discourage the education of women.
It is interesting that in some countries, women are still considered as second to men. And until very recently they were not allowed to vote in elections to choose their governments. Thankfully, that is changing, although I think it's a bit too slow.
16 May 07
Originally posted by ckoh1965That is not so much a religious issue but an education and cultural issue.
It is interesting that in some countries, women are still considered as second to men. And until very recently they were not allowed to vote in elections to choose their governments. Thankfully, that is changing, although I think it's a bit too slow.
I assume you are talking about laws, as of course in all countries there are still some men who consider women second to men and some women who are happy to let men go on thinking that especially if they get free support in the deal. I know a lot of women who think that it is the mans responsibility to provide for the home.
16 May 07
Originally posted by twhiteheadOh yes, indeed there are many women who think like that. And as a man, I think it is quite fair.... to a certain extent. I saw how my wife went through 9 months of pregnancy, and then the horrifying experience of childbirth. I was in the delivery room when it happened. I did not faint, by the way, so I saw it all! I'd gladly take the role of providing for the family instead of going through that ordeal!
I know a lot of women who think that it is the mans responsibility to provide for the home.
16 May 07
Originally posted by ckoh1965Now the question is, if you go ahead and take up that role but she does not do her part even after intervention from both families etc then is it OK for you to give an encouraging slap?
Oh yes, indeed there are many women who think like that. And as a man, I think it is quite fair.... to a certain extent. I saw how my wife went through 9 months of pregnancy, and then the horrifying experience of childbirth. I was in the delivery room when it happened. I did not faint, by the way, so I saw it all! I'd gladly take the role of providing for the family instead of going through that ordeal!
17 May 07
Originally posted by twhiteheadHmmm... tricky question. Funny the way you phrased it -- 'encouraging slap'. I've been married for 15 years now, and have never found myself in that situation. As a principle though, I don't believe in using such violent means to force my wife to 'do her part'. Perhaps I am more inclined to go through a divorce in the end. Obviously that is not the best outcomes, but I don't see beating up my wife as a better solution either.
Now the question is, if you go ahead and take up that role but she does not do her part even after intervention from both families etc then is it OK for you to give an encouraging slap?
17 May 07
Originally posted by kirksey957But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
DoctorScribbles (PBUH), is there an inheritently pimp culture in the nature of Islam? While I know they don't like to show any leg or, for that matter, ankle, it seems to me there is a lot of beating going on to control women. Your comments, please.
11:6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
11:8 For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.
11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
This verse must be from the Quran then.
Think again. This is from the Bible. Corinthians.
How about this one?
2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
(King James Bible, 1 Timothy)
Christians love convenience. We ignore all the difficult things we are asked to do, but we build our entire doctrine around the easy ones that say we are all sinners and there is nothing we can do about it. So let's just go on sinning and simply believe that our sins are paid for.