Abiogenesis, evolution and morality

Originally posted by twhitehead
Yes, I disagree. Some atheists may have very good reasons for having moral absolutes. I do.

So what are they?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
So what are they?

Mostly the same as yours. I feel that it is wrong to harm others without good reason.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Mostly the same as yours. I feel that it is wrong to harm others without good reason.

And you base this feeling on what exactly? Why would it be wrong? Would it be right to hurt someone if you had a good reason?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
And you base this feeling on what exactly? Why would it be wrong? Would it be right to hurt someone if you had a good reason?

I base it on my conscience as, I hope, do you. I don't base it on what I read in a book, and I don't think you do either. I think you use religion to post justify your conscience.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I base it on my conscience as, I hope, do you. I don't base it on what I read in a book, and I don't think you do either. I think you use religion to post justify your conscience.

So you are saying a conscience is an absolute moral authority?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
So you are saying a conscience is an absolute moral authority?

Stop using that bloody word "absolute"!!!
(Unless you care to define "absolute moral authority".)

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
So you are saying a conscience is an absolute moral authority?

No.
I think the problem here is that 'morals' or 'morality' has a range of meaning. Lets try and break it down a bit:
1. There is the desire or choice to do what is 'right' or to not do it. This is independent of what is right. So you could believe something is right, yet chose not to do it.
2. There is what is 'right' vs what is 'wrong'. At its heart almost everyone agrees that this boils down to only one thing: what is best or desirable for others. There are some caveats such as allowances for not helping others if it comes at a personal cost.
3. There are rules that are based on 2. that make it easier to know what is right or wrong in given situations 'do not kill', 'do not rape' etc. These are often cultural norms and may include rules that are several steps removed from 2. and have to do with the smooth functioning of society more than directly 'helping others'. Often special interests also get involved and mix in their own set of rule that really have nothing to do with morality but are sold as such.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Stop using that bloody word "absolute"!!!
(Unless you care to define "absolute moral authority".)

God.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
God.

So you believe in subjective morality then.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
God.

Is that you getting frustrated and blaspheming or are you using my middle-name?

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Is that you getting frustrated and blaspheming or are you using my middle-name?

I thought your middle name was Amadeus?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
I thought your middle name was Amadeus?

That's my stage name.

Originally posted by finnegan
Human religion is incredibly diverse and many faceted. If someone wishes to make a statement like "religion promoted our survival" or many variations on that theme, they would also have to set about some definition of what they are referring to,

For example, modern distinctions such as between science and religion have no validity in our history before ...[text shortened]... our history that is not one that can be slotted into the categories of modern western thinking.

I tried dating a philosophy major in school, but after a few rather loud arguments, we both vowed to never date the other again even if they were the last person on earth. Our last public argument featured such phrases as "cold and heartless" and "touchy, feely weirdness". Go figure.

Originally posted by Suzianne
I tried dating a philosophy major in school, but after a few rather loud arguments, we both vowed to never date the other again even if they were the last person on earth. Our last public argument featured such phrases as "cold and heartless" and "touchy, feely weirdness". Go figure.

Who'd have thought he'd have gone on to marry Jennifer Lopez.

Originally posted by Suzianne
I tried dating a philosophy major in school, but after a few rather loud arguments, we both vowed to never date the other again even if they were the last person on earth. Our last public argument featured such phrases as "cold and heartless" and "touchy, feely weirdness". Go figure.

One would be forgiven for thinking you have chosen to try to land a mealy mouthed personal slight on finnegan's chin here rather than actually address what he had to say.