Originally posted by SwissGambitThe verse in question is 1 Timothy 6:10 which says, "For the love of money is the root of all evil; which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows." However, this is the KJV. The NAS version says "For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil". Therefore, I guess it depends on the translation. However, to be sure most evils in the world stem from this problem. In short, men and women will do anything for a buck or two. For me this is a truth beyond question. People steal, lie, cheat, kill, prostitute themselves etc. for the pursuit of money.
I thought the verse said, "The love of money is a root of all kinds of evil". That makes more sense. If you say love of money is the root of [b]all evil, you rule out evil done for other motivations, like revenge, or sheer hatred.[/b]
If you want an absolute truth, don't have your first example as something philosophical. That can be debated to eternity and "the love of money is the root of all sorts of evil" in particular is about as far from absolute truth as a potential truth can be.
Absolute truth I would consider to be anything which is known beyond reasonable doubt. Gravity, Plato's constants, Atoms. Heck, pretty much all of science is absolute truth.
Originally posted by doodinthemoodSo the existence of gravity is an absolute truth? Do tell. What is gravity exactly?
If you want an absolute truth, don't have your first example as something philosophical. That can be debated to eternity and "the love of money is the root of all sorts of evil" in particular is about as far from absolute truth as a potential truth can be.
Absolute truth I would consider to be anything which is known beyond reasonable doubt. Gravity, Plato's constants, Atoms. Heck, pretty much all of science is absolute truth.
Edit: Do you know that it is mathamatically predicted that if gravity were "turned off" that space and time would vanish? Is there not some philosophy in the mix when describing gravity? I know of no one who claims to have 100% knowledge of it.
Originally posted by doodinthemoodI don't deny that it is what we observe, rather, I am asking how we can know 100%. I would assume that you would have a little better concept of what gravity is in order to place such faith in it.
Gravity is the force of attraction between masses in the universe.
This is an absolute truth in that anybody who doubts it is either ignorant, childish, or insane.
To be using concepts like "proven 100%" is to make the idea of evidence meaningless.
Do I have a computer? yes
Can I prove it? I can see it
What if I'm hallucinating? I can hear it
That could be my brain also? I can feel it
That could be my brain playing tricks also? People around the world can see what I'm typing
They could be hallucinating? .... Correct, they could, so I've shown it's not 100% true I have a computer. Should anybody doubt this fact? Obviously not, because it's been proven, and here's the key phrase, "beyond reasonable doubt".
What is it to say I have faith in gravity? You have the same faith. When you leave your house, are your last thoughts "WOAH, wait, what if gravity doesn't actually exist and I shoot of into space and die"?
No, anything proven beyond reasonable doubt is an absolute truth in my book.
Originally posted by doodinthemoodSo what you are saying is that you have evidences for what you percieve as being the truth rather than proof, no? If so, then an absolute truth can be ascertained without proof?
To be using concepts like "proven 100%" is to make the idea of evidence meaningless.
Do I have a computer? yes
Can I prove it? I can see it
What if I'm hallucinating? I can hear it
That could be my brain also? I can feel it
That could be my brain playing tricks also? People around the world can see what I'm typing
They could be hallucinating? ... e"?
No, anything proven beyond reasonable doubt is an absolute truth in my book.
Originally posted by josephw
Did this absolute truth come about by evolutionary processes?
If so, how?
Yeah, Neptune (1.137g) mated with Venus (0.904g) and their genes were passed on to the earth (g) and thus the earths gravity came into existance.
sarcasm end - of course gravity didn't evolve.
Originally posted by whodeyI don't understand. What is an "absolute truth"? What does it mean for a truth to be absolute? How would it differ from other truths, and is there something that confers the absoluteness?
I was just wondering, are there any absolute truths we can all agree on?
Are you asking if there are propositions that we can come to know infallibly?
Or are you asking if there are any propositions that we would all assign the same truth value if we each reflected on them (or some such)?
EDIT: At any rate, I doubt the one you offer ('The root of all evil is the love of money'😉 would fit either category.
Originally posted by LemonJelloI guess I would define an absolute truth as something you quit questioning because you believe it to be true for whatever reason. As for money being a root of all evil, I think it is self evident and it is something I have quit questioning. Just look around you, the evidence is overwhelming.
[b]I don't understand. What is an "absolute truth"? What does it mean for a truth to be absolute? How would it differ from other truths, and is there something that confers the absoluteness?
Originally posted by whodeySuppose one were to believe the earth is flat; suppose further he quits questioning it because he believes this proposition is true for, as you say, whatever reason; this seems to satisfy your definition. So it sounds like a pretty terrible definition (and misleading terminology) to me since it admits as "absolute truths" propositions that are clearly false.
I guess I would define an absolute truth as something you quit questioning because you believe it to be true for whatever reason. As for money being a root of all evil, I think it is self evident and it is something I have quit questioning. Just look around you, the evidence is overwhelming.
It sounds to me like you are just looking for stuff that people generally don't question. What about stuff like the apprehension of sense-impressions/qualia/appearances? Such stuff seems largely evident and foundational. Consider one example: "it seems to me that I am being appeared to greenly". If I were genuinely entertaining this, it's something I would not question because how could I take it to both be the case that I am genuinely entertaining it and it is not true? I think such a thing is "incorrigible" to the intellect, and thus I think agents would generally not "question" such things.
I have no idea why you think "The root of all evil is the love of money" is "self evident". I think you should keep questioning that one. Is it your contention, then, that it is not possible for a person to form and act on morally perverse intentions that have nothing to do with the lust for money? And what about "natural evils"? Do they not qualify as evils to you? Also, do you take it as a corollary that if a person were to have no love for money, then he could not produce any evil? These are just some questions I'm firing quickly off the very top of my head. Why have you stopped questioning this above proposition? Have you already exhaustively gone through and addressed these and other relevant questions?