Agora and Christian Behavior

Originally posted by moon1969
Interesting point. I don't know. The movie depicted the Christian mob ripping and burning the thousands of parchments/scrolls, and yelling that it was "pagan" crap.

Supposedly, the Alexandria library was the last large collection of great science and philisophy in the world -- centuries of work. The library was a center of documenting and storing sc ...[text shortened]... ristian authorities and mob didn't seem to place too much value on it, except to destroy it.

It was a MOVIE.

Basically a vehicle for whatever whacked ideas the producers or director wants to portray.

Originally posted by moon1969
I just watched the movie Agora (2009), which takes place in about 300 AD in Alexandria, Egypt. I was wondering how accurate the characterization of the Christians.

The Christians were gaining power and taking over the city, especially in view of the weakening Roman empire and with Christianity no longer an outlawed religion, and with the Roman leaders c ...[text shortened]... way if you have not watched the movie and may watch it.)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1186830/

It is probably a bunch of crap made by the liberals.

Originally posted by moon1969
One line in the movie that stood out to me was the top Christian leader in Alexandria giving a speech after reading scripture from Paul that women should be silent and submissive, emphasized that there were no women amongst Jesus disciples.

You should know that is nonsense.

Originally posted by RJHinds
You should know that is nonsense.

which part of it would be nonsense? that paul said women should be silent and submissive? that there were no women amongst the disciples? both?

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
Yes, indeed ! Have you seen her " enemy at the gates " ? Please do, you will like the movie and renew your ardour for Rachel.

I have watched that and you are right about Rachel in that one. Agree.

Originally posted by whodey
Let me guess, they are all women hating male conservative book burning Christian fundamentalists.

I knew it!! 😠

That kind of sums up the most vocal group of the Christian mob.

One of the extended striking scenes of the movie was the Christian mob rushing the library complex, and ripping books, parchments, and scrolls to pieces, and yes also making big piles and burning them, while the rational educated people (pagans) quickly gathered what scrolls and parchments they could save and escaped out the back of the library complex under Roman guard.

The pagans rushing hurredly around with scrolls and parchments overflowing in their arms, trying to locate and save what they considered the most important documents but with little success, as there was not time to avoid the crazy Christian mob. Centuries of history, math, philosophy, and science gone, in the name of the Christian god.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
which part of it would be nonsense? that paul said women should be silent and submissive? that there were no women amongst the disciples? both?

The scripture being read by the lead Christian bishop to the Christian mob was when Paul was writing to the Corinthians.

34 let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law.

35 And if they would learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home: for it is shameful for a woman to speak in the church.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35

The Christian lead bishop commented that Hypathia should be silent. He then indicated to the mob that Hypathia may be a witch. Another Christian bishop in the movie who used to be Hypathia's student and liked her, still emphasized that the scripture read to the crowd was the word of God, and that Hypathia did appear to put a spell on men. Well, Rachel can put somewhat of a spell on me sometimes.

Originally posted by moon1969
The scripture being read by the lead Christian bishop to the Christian mob was when Paul was writing to the Corinthians.
[quote]34 let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law.

35 And if they would learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home: fo ...[text shortened]... ia did appear to put a spell on men. Well, Rachel can put somewhat of a spell on me sometimes.

You write like you really believe in the truth of this movie. 😲

Originally posted by RJHinds
You write like you really believe in the truth of this movie. 😲

which part of it would be nonsense? that paul said women should be silent and submissive? that there were no women amongst the disciples? both?

Originally posted by RJHinds
You write like you really believe in the truth of this movie. 😲

First, while describing the movie, I do not mean to imply a supreme historical interpretation, but just merely describing what is in the movie. Second, in the making of the movie, I suspect there was poetic freedom and guesswork at the history. Historical accuracy regarding 400 AD is surely challenging. Indeed, clearly not every specific detail in the movie was historically perfect, and that the movie was instead loosely based on history, especially when it came to certain personal relationships and dialogue, for instance.

Yet, my original post was to ask if the general-type behavior of the Christian mobs in about 400 AD depicted in the movie (which starts in 391 AD) was typically accurate -- when the Christians were being legitimized and given freedom to practice their religion, and were rising to power. With their newfound freedom and power, were the Christians violent and mobbish, mocking other religions, slaughtering masses of Jewish men, women, and children with crude weapons, destroying great works of history and science, and demanding that women not play a leadership role in their religion.

Originally posted by RJHinds
You write like you really believe in the truth of this movie. 😲

The movie claimed at the end, right as the credits were were about to roll, that the top Christian bishop leading the mob and who labeled Hypathia as a witch, was later made a saint by the christian church. I think his name was Cyril. A friend told me he is controversial because of his involvement in the expulsion of Jews from Alexandria and in the murder of the Hellenistic philosopher Hypatia.

From wikipedia regarding the murder of Hypathia:

"Hypatia was believed to be the cause of strained relations between Orestes, the Imperial Roman Prefect, and the Patriarch Cyril, thus she attracted the hatred of the Christians of Alexandria, who wanted the governor and the priest to reconcile. One day, in March AD 415, during Lent, a Christian mob of lay Christians led by "Peter the Reader," waylaid Hypatia's chariot as she travelled home. The mob attacked Hypatia, stripped her naked as a form of humiliation, then dragged her through the streets to the recently Christianised Caesareum church, where they killed her. The reports suggest that the mob of Christians flayed her body with ostraca (pot shards), and then burned her remains." (Citing O'Connor, John J.; Robertson, Edmund F., "Hypatia", MacTutor History of Mathematics archive, University of St Andrews).

Originally posted by RJHinds
You write like you really believe in the truth of this movie. 😲

As for Hypatia, she did exist, as you probably know. Also from widipedia and for your reading pleasure but with citations omitted:

Hypatia (ca. AD 350–370–March 415) was a Greek Neoplatonist philosopher in Roman Egypt who was the first notable woman in mathematics. As head of the Platonist school at Alexandria, she also taught philosophy and astronomy.

As a Neoplatonist philosopher, she belonged to the mathematic tradition of the Academy of Athens, as represented by Eudoxus of Cnidus; she was of the intellectual school of the 3rd century thinker Plotinus, which encouraged logic and mathematical study in place of empirical enquiry and strongly encouraged law in place of nature.

Hypatia lived in Roman Egypt, and was murdered by a Christian mob which accused her of causing religious turmoil.

The mathematician and philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria was the daughter of the mathematician Theon Alexandricus (ca. 335–405) and last librarian of the Library of Alexandria in the Museum of Alexandria. She was educated at Athens and in Italy; at about AD 400, she became head of the Platonist school at Alexandria, where she imparted the knowledge of Plato and Aristotle to any student; the pupils included pagans, Christians, and foreigners.

The contemporary 5th-century sources do identify Hypatia of Alexandria as a practitioner and teacher of the philosophy of Plato and Plotinus, but, two hundred years later, the 7th-century Egyptian Coptic bishop John of Nikiû identified her as a Hellenistic pagan and that "she was devoted at all times to magic, astrolabes and instruments of music, and she beguiled many people through her Satanic wiles".

Moreover, the Suda also stated that "she remained a virgin" and that she rejected a suitor with her menstrual rags [which was in the movie, by the way], saying that they demonstrated "nothing beautiful" about carnal desire.

Hypatia corresponded with former pupil Synesius of Cyrene, who was tutored by her in the philosophical school of Platonism and later became bishop of Ptolemais in AD 410 [also in the movie], an exponent of the Christian Holy Trinity doctrine. Together with the references by the pagan philosopher Damascius, these are the extant records left by Hypatia's pupils at the Platonist school of AlexandriaThe contemporary Christian historiographer Socrates Scholasticus described her in Ecclesiastical History:

"There was a woman at Alexandria named Hypatia, daughter of the philosopher Theon, who made such attainments in literature and science, as to far surpass all the philosophers of her own time. Having succeeded to the school of Plato and Plotinus, she explained the principles of philosophy to her auditors, many of whom came from a distance to receive her instructions. On account of the self-possession and ease of manner which she had acquired in consequence of the cultivation of her mind, she not infrequently appeared in public in the presence of the magistrates. Neither did she feel abashed in going to an assembly of men. For all men on account of her extraordinary dignity and virtue admired her the more."

Originally posted by moon1969
The movie claimed at the end, right as the credits were were about to roll, that the top Christian bishop leading the mob and who labeled Hypathia as a witch, was later made a saint by the christian church. I think his name was Cyril. A friend told me he is controversial because of his involvement in the expulsion of Jews from Alexandria and in the murder ...[text shortened]... dmund F., "Hypatia", MacTutor History of Mathematics archive, University of St Andrews).

it's interesting to note the differences in historical recording by socrates vs john of nikiu.

socrates:

There was a woman at Alexandria named Hypatia, daughter of the philosopher Theon, who made such attainments in literature and science, as to far surpass all the philosophers of her own time. Having succeeded to the school of Plato and Plotinus, she explained the principles of philosophy to her auditors, many of whom came from a distance to receive her instructions. On account of the self-possession and ease of manner which she had acquired in consequence of the cultivation of her mind, she not infrequently appeared in public in the presence of the magistrates. Neither did she feel abashed in going to an assembly of men. For all men on account of her extraordinary dignity and virtue admired her the more.

then note how doofus of nikiu apologizes for brutal murder of an enlightened woman committed by so called followers of jesus:

And, in those days, there appeared in Alexandria a female philosopher, a pagan named Hypatia, and she was devoted at all times to magic, astrolabes, and instruments of music, and she beguiled many people through Satanic wiles . . . A multitude of believers in God arose under the guidance of Peter the Magistrate . . . and they proceeded to seek for the pagan woman who had beguiled the people of the city and the Prefect through her enchantments. And when they learnt the place where she was, they proceeded to her and found her . . . they dragged her along till they brought her to the great church, named Caesareum. Now this was in the days of the fast. And they tore off her clothing and dragged her . . . through the streets of the city till she died. And they carried her to a place named Cinaron, and they burned her body with fire.

"magic, enchantments, beguiled, satanic..." typical nonsense from ignorant superstitious buffoons.


source
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypatia