Aletheia

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
nope, i dont agree with this evaluation beetle, these are realities based through an observation of the natural world. does order exist? can we observe the order? is there function? can we observe the functions? Are we able to draw conclusions from those observations, yes we can, through an evaluation of the mind. therefore my trusty feer your f ...[text shortened]... is not a literal analogy, simply that there are indications of things that are as yet unknown 🙂

Oh Rabbie my trusty feer order does not exist due to the fact that every observer/ system but space and nirvana are all impermanent and under constant changes within the physical world, which is an ultra sensitive and responsive experiential field. Therefore we observe not order but a chaotic process of the observer universe, having at the same time in mind that each observer collapses differently the wavefunction;

Functions of any kind -“functions” are the products of an endless cause-effect chain based on the interactions of all the observers withing the observer universe- are deciphered according to the evaluation of the mind, and the sole tools of ours for this procedure are science and philosophy. The solid theories of reality are rising from the interaction of those mind-only fields and they are flexible.

Therefore our conclusions are temporary and under constant evaluation at every given herenow. And our thoughts are justified or unjustified according to our expansive knowledge and our constant evaluation of the mind, and not because some of our theories of reality urge us to stick with this idea or that idea.

So for starters you simply have to prove that there is order instead of chaos, you have to offer a single element of reality that proves the existence of the so called “god”, and you have to prove that every life formation -ie a cell- is designed by the observer “god” and that its physical properties are in analogy with the supposed properties of the observer “god”
😵

Originally posted by black beetle
Oh Rabbie my trusty feer order does not exist due to the fact that every observer/ system but space and nirvana are all impermanent and under constant changes within the physical world, which is an ultra sensitive and responsive experiential field. Therefore we observe not order but a chaotic process of the observer universe, having at the same time in ...[text shortened]... at its physical properties are in analogy with the supposed properties of the observer “god”
😵

ah ah my trusty advisor, it cannot be the case that the universe and what we observe, although in a state of flux is in chaos! can it? oh no no, for, let us take the living cell as an example one again, for if this microcosm exhibited chaos then it could and would not function, but this is not the case! we observe a highly 'organised', and complex series of events, interdependent on each other for the safe functioning of the whole! why can we not state that here there is order amongst what appears to be chaos? Me thinks you have been visited by Eris daughter of discordance and she has placed these thoughts before you!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
ah ah my trusty advisor, it cannot be the case that the universe and what we observe, although in a state of flux is in chaos! can it? oh no no, for, let us take the living cell as an example one again, for if this microcosm exhibited chaos then it could and would not function, but this is not the case! we observe a highly 'organised', and complex ...[text shortened]... ave been visited by Eris daughter of discordance and she has placed these thoughts before you!

Umm..just a thought, but I thought quantum theory had established that the observeable universe (ie. matter), could behave like a particle AND a wave.
The universe is a paradox. Thats where I would start if I was serious about learning the true nature of all things -(created by God???(perhaps))...

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Umm..just a thought, but I thought quantum theory had established that the observeable universe (ie. matter), could behave like a particle AND a wave.
The universe is a paradox. Thats where I would start if I was serious about learning the true nature of all things -(created by God???(perhaps))...

as i stated to beetle i do not know anything about quantum theory, i was only reading an article which was describing how scientists were looking for a particle that they thought should exist, but as yet had no solid evidence, which is one of many reasons why the particle accelerator at Geneva was built, to find evidence for a theoretical model known as supersymmetry that unites all of nature's fundamental building blocks,and also rather interestingly to determine possible extra dimensions in the Universe.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
ah ah my trusty advisor, it cannot be the case that the universe and what we observe, although in a state of flux is in chaos! can it? oh no no, for, let us take the living cell as an example one again, for if this microcosm exhibited chaos then it could and would not function, but this is not the case! we observe a highly 'organised', and complex ...[text shortened]... ave been visited by Eris daughter of discordance and she has placed these thoughts before you!

Nope; let's see in brief the case regarding the cancerous cells. According to Alberts et al. the molecule basis of cancer is understood as following:

Cancers derive from single abnormal cells that begin to grow so quickly that they become tumors, and most cancers seem to be caused by changes in the base sequence of DNA. The mutations must be several instead of one in order to become a cell cancerous, and then the mutations that affect the rate of mutation are likely to cause cancer. This means that cancer is a kind of natural selection: cells that divide more rapidly than others can outcompete the others, just as organisms that reproduce more effectively than others become the most prevalent in a population.
Now I could safely say that I rest my case, since the process termed in Biology as “natural selection” is indeed chaotic due to the fact that all that we are monitoring is the successful feats of “engineering” of the living cell based on what looks to us like a set of rules of thumb whilst for the cell itself is merely “memory of its components of reality”… However I have to keep a bit up in order to decompose your argument in full.

When our healthy cells are under a full scale attack by the cancerous ones, the enemy proceeds to additional mutations that allow them to grow more rapidly and replace the other cancerous cells -and this is the reason why the cancerous cells become more and more aggressive when untreated they remain. But the treatments can too drive the evolution of the cancerous cells, and recurrent cancers are much more difficult to treat than the original cancer -and this means that the cancerous cells are very flexible even whenever their environment becomes a true hell for them, therefore we can safely assume that they are quite fit to survive even when their so called by you "order" is under attack by our treatments, which to the cancerous cells are equivalent to a chaotic environment.

Today we know that most cancers have environmental causes, therefore your theory about order is again dismissed, because order is a rare bird at every given (everchanging) environment. In fact the different kinds of cancers can vary in frequency by as much as two orders of magnitude in different populations, therefore today it is accepted that there are indeed local environmental causes.
Therefore, since cancer appears to result from mutations that allow cells to divide inappropriately and from mutations that prevent a cell from dying when it should, we can assume that the cells have a detection system that picks up mutations and prevents cell division until the damage is repaired. If the repair doesn't occur within a certain amount of time, the cell can destruct itself. The mutations that inactivate this suicide "program" (I use the word program for my convenience and not because I beleive that the cell is a computer) allow defective cells to survive and become cancerous. Once more, this is simply a cause-effect process and proves that the existence of the so call “order” is a myth: whatever actually takes place is a reaction that enables the living cell to “live” normally as long as its “engineering” is not seriously derailed due to mutations in it and/ or due to local environmental causes.

Finally, most cancers are metastatic, and these ones are deadlier than they would be if they were simply fast growing well localized masses of cells. As you see, even the cancerous cells do react according to chaos instead of order.

Therefore when we observe the living cell we do not observe "order" but a set of reactions that they enable its survival. A survival that can be cancelled anytime anywhere anyhow due to the fact that the environment itself is chaotic -and this means that the cell can anytime anywhere anyhow become unable to react "the correct way". So we cannot state that there is order amongst the given chaos -we can merely say that in the given chaos the cell is able to survive due to its "memory of triumphant mutations" for as long as it is capable to balance (react accurately) on its rope -and there is no safety net once it starts falling.

I wish I were ignorant of this specific chaotic process; a tumor on the brain killed Marias' mother on October 17, and our good doctor answered our questiones and backed us up with bibliography in full;

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage

Untruth, then, is something concealed or disguised.

Concealed or disguised imply an agent. 😵

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
as i stated to beetle i do not know anything about quantum theory, i was only reading an article which was describing how scientists were looking for a particle that they thought should exist, but as yet had no solid evidence, which is one of many reasons why the particle accelerator at Geneva was built, to find evidence for a theoretical model known g blocks,and also rather interestingly to determine possible extra dimensions in the Universe.

First of all quantum requires you to be an active participent in any quantum experiment. You got that?

Ok. Lets say someone is bouncing a basketball in front of you,(say 5m). When you are facing the 'bouncer' the position of the the ball and the 'bouncer' is fixed,(particle).
Now then turn 180 degrees ,(about face), so you can only hear the ball bouncing. When you are not looking at the bouncer, THEY COULD BE IN SEVERAL DIFFERENT POSITIONS AT ONCE,(wave). When you turn again the ball is once again 'locked' into a fixed position,(particle again).
As radical as this seems to our everyday conciousness this scientific method is repeatable in many different types of experiments. (Again , remember that this type of science requires you to be an active participant, and not just an outside observer).
This opens up a whole new way of viewing the natural world which includes the observer in the experiment. After all are we not part of creation? Or do you think that we are outside of the 'created' world?
(I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible, for this science is only in its infancy, but has proved to be more accurate in describing the natural world than the previous newtonian,(and then), Einsteinian models).

Originally posted by black beetle
Nope; let's see in brief the case regarding the cancerous cells. According to Alberts et al. the molecule basis of cancer is understood as following:

Cancers derive from single abnormal cells that begin to grow so quickly that they become tumors, and most cancers seem to be caused by changes in the base sequence of DNA. The mutations must be several our good doctor answered our questiones and backed us up with bibliography in full;

beetle it is a terrible thing, it really is! peace to you my friend, my own grandmother died of this thing, age 30 leaving five boys and one girl.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
First of all quantum requires you to be an active participent in any quantum experiment. You got that?

Ok. Lets say someone is bouncing a basketball in front of you,(say 5m). When you are facing the 'bouncer' the position of the the ball and the 'bouncer' is fixed,(particle).
Now then turn 180 degrees ,(about face), so you can only hear the ball ...[text shortened]... scribing the natural world than the previous newtonian,(and then), Einsteinian models).

this is beyond my remit Karoly Poly, but thanks for trying to educate this theist.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
beetle it is a terrible thing, it really is! peace to you my friend, my own grandmother died of this thing, age 30 leaving five boys and one girl.

Peace to you and to yours too, my friend;

Originally posted by black beetle
It was not an insult. English is not my mother tongue, I am Greek.

I am the Truth and You are the Truth afterall. I cannot use a simpler declaration than this🙂

Best regards from Athens, Greece😵

God is Truth, and we are mere shadows of the truth we can be if we are willing to believe God.

Best regards from the once 'America the beautiful'.

Originally posted by josephw
God is Truth, and we are mere shadows of the truth we can be if we are willing to believe God.

Best regards from the once 'America the beautiful'.

It is a nice work if you can get it -religion is the best franchise in Orion Arm😵

Originally posted by black beetle
It is a nice work if you can get it -religion is the best franchise in Orion Arm😵

Is this what you're talking about?

Welcome to Orion's Arm, a scenario set thousands of years in the future where civilization spans the stars. Godlike ascended intelligences rule vast interstellar empires, and lesser factions seek to carve out their own dominions through intrigue and conquest. And out beyond the edge of civilized space and the human friendly worlds, adventure awaits those prepared to risk all.

Come join us in this ever-expanding collective worldbuilding effort. Within the vast universe that is Orion's Arm you will find:

Hard Science
Plausible Technology
Realistic Cultural Development
A vast Setting
10,000+ years of historical development
Realistic Exobiology

Originally posted by josephw
Is this what you're talking about?

Welcome to Orion's Arm, a scenario set thousands of years in the future where civilization spans the stars. Godlike ascended intelligences rule vast interstellar empires, and lesser factions seek to carve out their own dominions through intrigue and conquest. And out beyond the edge of civilized space and the human frien ...[text shortened]... Development
A vast Setting
10,000+ years of historical development
Realistic Exobiology

Nope, I was talking about aletheia -which is a product of our knowledge kat’ eikona kai kath’ omoiosin of the Human who produced it (and this is the reason why the shape of aletheia can be whatever we please but its skeleton has to remain the same: I am the Truth).

So if I wanted, say, to find out how much time is needed for a full circulation of a red cell in the body of a human being that weights 70kg, I would definitely take into account the fact that the weight of the blood is approximately 7% of the total weight of the body and I would assume that the total weight of the blood would be 4,9lt. Whenever the heart of that specific human being is relaxed and performs 67 pulses per minute, I would assume that in the time period of 1min the heart would pump 6,7 x 0,1 = 6,7lt of blood due to the fact that at each pulse it pumps 0,1lt of blood, and therefore I would conclude that the sum of the blood (4,9lt) is pumped by that specific heart every 44sec, and therefore I would conclude that under these specific circumstances a red cell would perform a full circulation of that body within 44sec.

This product of mine is aletheia according to the Prosocratic philosophic procedure and it has no inherent existence for it is relative, because it is clearly a product of my knowledge (a part of my under constant evaluation personal theory of reality) during my interaction with the physical world. And, since it is unforgettable (due to the fact that the above mentioned piece of information is an accurate description of an element of reality that is fully backed up by our science) it is also powerful because it adjusts my attitude and my understanding (thus it makes me a product of my product that I name aletheia). Of course I will readjust this aletheia of mine on the spot as soon as I ‘ll get new data that they will urge me to proceed with a new evaluation.
As you see, the sole tools required for the bringing up of aletheia are science and philosophy -and then follows once more the evaluation of the mind.

On the contrary, the miscellaneous scenarios like this post of yours to which I reply and like the miscellaneous religious doctrines, they are not aletheia (they are not justified neither by science and philosophy nor by the evaluation of the mind) although they can/ could be falsely considered as aletheia
😵

Originally posted by black beetle
Nope, I was talking about aletheia -which is a product of our knowledge kat’ eikona kai kath’ omoiosin of the Human who produced it (and this is the reason why the shape of aletheia can be whatever we please but its skeleton has to remain the same: I am the Truth).

So if I wanted, say, to find out how much time is needed for a full circulation of a r ...[text shortened]... or by the evaluation of the mind) although they can/ could be falsely considered as aletheia
😵

So then what you're saying is God isn't Truth.

By the way, if I'm not mistaken, that's a great job of cut and paste.