Originally posted by josephwYou may do that, but the vast majority of people do not. Instead we make a judgment about what we hear as to whether it is true or not based on a large number of factors.
One chooses to believe that what they hear is the truth, or not.
Is it true that Jesus died on a cross, was buried and rose from the dead? Yes, it is true, whether one believes it or not.
No, its not true, whether one believes it or not 🙂
Hear and choose to believe the truth. There is ample evidence for the truth.
Then provide that evidence, instead of all the waffle. I see nothing in your post that addresses my concerns. Instead I see nothing more than a repeat of your previous post which basically say 'its true because I say its true! And look, the Bible says it too!'.
Sorry, but I don't find that convincing.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Originally posted by twhiteheadThere is nothing "disingenuous" there.
You are being disingenuous. You did not choose to accept that. You already believed that to be true. And you didn't believe it through an act of choice.
Nothing sneaky, nothing dishonest, and no slight of hand.
In my search for truth the definition of "God" was a big problem to me.
I believed that there was SOMETHING ... that is all.
I never believed that there was nothing.
If only a giant question mark out there in outer space larger than all the galaxies, there was SOMETHING.
In dealing with so called pluralism, I figured out that it was perfectly legitimate to recognize that many beliefs could each contain some aspect of truth.
You think everyone else is a tricky disingenuous person because you know yourself how easy it is to use slight of hand on others. I think you're projecting. I always have.
Originally posted by twhiteheadOriginally posted by twhitehead
I already knew that you and Bobby believe that. I already knew about Jesus' and the Bibles claims.
Of course! I sure don't see the world flocking to Jesus.
And that situation will remain for as long as proselytizers like you and Bobby continue to stick to an obviously flawed strategy. Bobby seems to think that spamming the thread with Bible passa ...[text shortened]... d even if you did, I doubt you would be more likely to believe my subsequent statements as a result.
"You have to realize that if you genuinely believe you know the truth, and you want others to know the truth, you should try to explain to others good reasons why you believe it is the truth."
twhitehead, please realize that I'm not asking you to "believe" anything....
only if you would "consider" an offer made to a woman at a well in Samaria nearly two thousand years ago.
If there is a God who has revealed Himself and has a perfect plan for every human being including you and me,
then don't we at the least owe God a hearing? Nothing is required of you except an open mind.
There are no religious gimmicks. All I would like to do is to give you additional information provided though the Word of God.
You and I have nothing of value in this world to give God except a hearing. Whether you listen is strictly up to you.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Originally posted by FMF
You are completely missing the point.
Can you choose to believe things that you do not believe?
No. You can't.
You are completely missing the point.
Can you choose to believe things that you do not believe?
No. You can't.
If such were the case then a Christian would never have existed in history.
Your logic excludes the activity of God the Holy Spirit to convict, convince, persuade, woo, move hearts towards the Savior.
Now you may say "It ain't happening to me."
That might be true.
But I believed what I did not believe - somehow.
It was like stepping off of a ledge. But instead of stepping off into oblivion a big faithful hand was there to catch me.
If people like me thought that the unbeliever could not move from a position of unbelief to a position of belief, if we thought such was impossible, we would not share the message to others.
And getting cleverly over analytical about not being able to believe what one does not believe and one had to have believed it already, and such self absorbing introspection is no sure fire refuge from having the responsibility to respond to God's call.
I think it is a game which has some limited usage but not total.
I knew a man whom I spoke to quite much about becoming a Christian.
He resisted and TOLD me that he told Jesus "I don't want you."
He had to have believed something.
He didn't want Jesus to be Lord & Savior and he told Him so so that there would be no misunderstanding at all.
I have no reason to doubt his testimony on this.
Either he believed enough to tell God "No ... I don't want you" or just in case God was real, he honestly expressed to any prospects that he wanted nothing to do with any God.
That was years ago. I hope he had another opportunity and made a positive decision.
Originally posted by sonshipBut did you, during the course of this thread, choose to believe in God?
In dealing with so called pluralism, I figured out that it was perfectly legitimate to recognize that many beliefs could each contain some aspect of truth.
You think everyone else is a tricky disingenuous person because you know yourself how easy it is to use slight of hand on others. I think you're projecting. I always have.
No, I think you are being disingenuous because of what you posted. As for projecting, you are the master of that practice as you frequently respond to what you imagine posters would have posted if what you imagine about them were true, rather than the actual content of their posts. I suspect that is what happened in this thread. I strongly suggest you go back and read the last few posts without projecting and see where you went wrong.
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyYou are at a minimum asking me to believe that such an offer was made. I do not believe it.
twhitehead, please realize that I'm not asking you to "believe" anything....
only if you would "consider" an offer made to a woman at a well in Samaria nearly two thousand years ago.
If there is a God who has revealed Himself and has a perfect plan for every human being including you and me, then don't we at the least owe God a hearing?
I am not sure if we would owe such a God a hearing, I would need to know more about it. But even if I did think such a God deserved a hearing, you would have to convince me that such a God existed before I sat down to hear it.
Nothing is required of you except an open mind.
If your mind is too open, your brains will fall out.
What you are asking of me, is to believe something I consider impossible, merely on your say so.
All I would like to do is to give you additional information provided though the Word of God.
Well you wasted your time, because I don't bother reading lengthy Bible quotes.
You and I have nothing of value in this world to give God except a hearing. Whether you listen is strictly up to you.
And I will not listen for as long as I do not believe such a God exists. Hence my response to your OP that you are wasting your time until you find a way to convince me that God exists.
If your objective is to help me listen, then you should change your strategy as your current one will never work. If your objective is to absolve yourself of guilt, then go right ahead and continue deluding yourself.
29 Nov 14
Originally posted by CalJustOriginally posted by CalJust
Be honest, GB: Do YOU have an open mind?
How can you ask this of anybody if YOUR mind is totally, 100%, made up?
"Be honest, GB: Do YOU have an open mind?"
Yes, CJ. Began as a small boy whose tabula rasa curiosity was bent on discovering the micro and macro world around him in a small town an hours drive from Boston, Massachusetts; whose life thankfully included a dear mother who began reading to him as a toddler; story hour at our local library on Thursday afternoons; the joys of taking weekly trumpet lessons from a demanding but kind retired Swedish Philanthropist; learning chess at the age of nine; the wonders of swimming in salt water; finding shells, polished stones and other Atlantic Ocean Sea Life residue strewn along the beaches following Low Tides within a short walk of our rented cottage vacationing on Cape Cod. Teen year explorations continued with learning from my high school teachers (chemistry and physics with Mr. Stevens, especially); employers expectations at part time jobs; coaches' strategies for our teams; repairing our second hand cars if need be late at night by the light of flares. Earning a university degree was stimulating beyond all expectation. Personal relationships developed with several seasoned professors who gave project assignments to enhance my understanding of the course curriculum. My curiosity still knew no bounds, often reading relevant books not specifically assigned. An "open mind" perspective continues to this day. Why? Why not?
Originally posted by CalJust
"How can you ask this of anybody if YOUR mind is totally, 100%, made up?"
CJ, I have no illusions of having arrived; I'm still learning with an open mind each day as well as unlearning in the process.
29 Nov 14
Originally posted by twhiteheadOh, the irony.
No, I think you are being disingenuous because of what you posted. As for projecting, you are the master of that practice as you frequently respond to what you imagine posters would have posted if what you imagine about them were true, rather than the actual content of their posts. I suspect that is what happened in this thread. I strongly suggest you go back and read the last few posts without projecting and see where you went wrong.
29 Nov 14
Originally posted by twhiteheadBut it is perfectly okay for you to insult the belief system of many here by equating the God of Abraham to an invisible pink unicorn. This is the same error the people who trot out the FSM make.
Will you consider the offer made by the invisible pink unicorn that lives in my fridge? It is offering you the chance to release yourself from the bonds of your religion.
It's been my experience that most atheists in the real world simply do not believe in God (yeah, yeah, okay, any god) and are perfectly happy saying so. Most do not have to insult those who do believe in God by bringing out ridiculous false 'gods'. It's usually those, who cannot accurately describe their non-belief without resorting to insults, that do. These are the same half-wits who, after noticing a person at their Thanksgiving table pray before their meal, ask if they also included a prayer to the FSM, and if not, why not. Most atheists are just content to let people do their own thing without the insulting.
Originally posted by sonshipSo you are able to choose to believe that Islam represents the truth, and that Christianity does not, if you want to?
Your logic excludes the activity of God the Holy Spirit to convict, convince, persuade, woo, move hearts towards the Savior.
Now you may say "It ain't happening to me."
That might be true.
But I believed what I did not believe - somehow.
It was like stepping off of a ledge. But instead of stepping off into oblivion a big faithful hand was th ...[text shortened]... position of belief, if we thought such was impossible, we would not share the message to others.
It seems your strength of conviction in your own beliefs disables you from recognizing the nature of disbelief and all you are left able to do is trumpet your own beliefs rather than understand how someone might differ from you in their convictions.