18 Oct 05
Originally posted by aspviper666I've heard of Fortune, but never read her. Most of my studies have been within the Jewish context.
WOW ! !
i expected a few posts ...but this is way cool
dion fortune wrote the best ( i think) introduction into the kabbala
called "The Mystical Kabbala" i am not sure off hand which spelling she used C Q or K lol
the books suggested by others are very good also but fortune puts most concepts in a way a non practioner of the occult or a non jew ...[text shortened]... and understanding god and his many eminations
of which you and i are all a part of
cheers
art
18 Oct 05
Originally posted by Bosse de NageSeems to be a mixed bag. Shokek has a section on messianism in Kabbalah, but he notes that "The Messiah himself does not appear in the Jewish sources in the form of one particular person, but rather in the figures of various redeemers and saviors. Moses is considered the first Jewish Messiah." [italics mine.]
Very good.
What is the function of the Messiah within Kabbalistic tradition?
In Lurianic Kabbalah the Messiah is in the collective body of Israel. Shokek also notes that messianism is not always eschatalogical in Judaism.
It's not a theme that I've spent much time with.
19 Oct 05
Originally posted by vistesdFor that reason, I think the Kabbalah is incompatible with orthodox Christianity. Of course, any number of ideas might be appropriated from it.
Shokek has a section on messianism in Kabbalah, but he notes that "The Messiah himself does not appear in the Jewish sources in the form of one particular person, but rather in the figures of various redeemers and saviors. Moses is considered the first Jewish Messiah." [italics mine.]
What are the objects of Kabbalistic practice, in your view?
20 Oct 05
1 edit
Originally posted by Bosse de Nagethe messiah in kabbalistic terms is the sphere of tiphereth the sun sphere the very center and heart of the tree of life
For that reason, I think the Kabbalah is incompatible with orthodox Christianity. Of course, any number of ideas might be appropriated from it.
What are the objects of Kabbalistic practice, in your view?
most occultist attribute christ to that sphere on the tree and it makes sense.
as far as the goal of kabbala it is the same as all relgions basically... it is to become one with god.. and the limitless light beyond
art
22 Oct 05
1 edit
Originally posted by aspviper666Ah, yes: t’ferit. Beauty. And what does beauty require? In Judaism, of course, t’ferit cannot be the Christ. The figure most often associated with it is Yaakov, who became Yisrael. Why? Yaakov was all sloppy emotionalism—too much chesed. He allowed himself to be used dishonestly by his mother to steal the birthright. And he was such a romantic, pining for Rachel. (But, must not the real birthright always be stolen? Not to take these stories on the literal level.) He allowed himself to be used by Laban—and all he could do was try to trick in return, a reaction, a rebellion from the underside of chesed (this is a false gevurah). Then he wrestled with the angel of YHVH and was wounded, and henceforth was called Yisrael, a “wrestler with God.” And it was only through this wound that he received sufficient gevurah to begin to walk upright.
the messiah in kabbalistic terms is the sphere of tiphereth the sun sphere the very center and heart of the tree of life
most occultist attribute christ to that sphere on the tree and it makes sense.
as far as the goal of kabbala it is the same as all relgions basically... it is to become one with god.. and the limitless light beyond
art
And yet—I do not agree. His story remained one of too much chesed (think of Joseph and his brothers). Just as Aharon, just as Yitzhak; Aharon, the unthinking “rescuer,” Yitzhak, the compliant “victim.”
And so, I think this: Yes, t’ferit is the principal archetype for ha’moshiach. But not t’ferit alone; t’ferit as the center. There is no moshiach that does not embody also the other s’ferot. But ha’moshiach is not any one person in history. Every time you make tikkun, every time you free the sparks, you participate in the coming of ha’moshiach, and moshiach is in that tikkun.
So, the question is this: How is gevurah necessary for tikkun?