Atheist morals

Originally posted by @pianoman1
1) If you agree that, in the absence of God, you would commit robbery, rape and murder, you reveal yourself as an immoral person, and we would be well advised to steer a wide course around you. If, on the other hand, you admit that you would continue to be a good person even when not under divine surveillance, you have fatally undermined your claim that G ...[text shortened]... ering ancient tribesman. An innate sense of right and wrong existed before the Ten Commandments.

If God doesn't exist, according to which objective standard would you judge him to be 'immoral'?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
If God doesn't exist, according to which objective standard would you judge him to be 'immoral'?

If a person needs a god to tell him what is moral or immoral, then he is a very sad person, in my view.

What is morality? Is it objective or subjective?

If it is objective where does come from?
a) supernatural being?
b) part of the fabric of nature?
c) part of "furniture" of world independent of humans?

If it is subjective it is related to humans and innate. i.e. Without humans there would be no morality.

In my view morality cannot objectively be based on a supernatural being because:

a) God cannot be proved
b) atheists are moral people
c) which religion is best ethically?

So, one can judge him to be immoral by the objective standard of the natural order of things and the framework of nature, or by the subjective standard of innate right and wrong.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Why then do you try to talk people out of it if it is a personal issue and your stance should not be imposed upon people?

I don't think my stance on abortion should be imposed on people and the reasons why I talked people out of it are a personal matter between me and them. Like I said before: No questions about the details of these things, if you don't mind.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
The issue of capital punishment does not affect me at all and I have not given it much thought, why do you think it is imperative for me to have a stance on it?

I haven't used the word "imperative". But I have used the word "manchild". On the other thread.

Originally posted by @pianoman1
If a person needs a god to tell him what is moral or immoral, then he is a very sad person, in my view.

What is morality? Is it objective or subjective?

If it is objective where does come from?
a) supernatural being?
b) part of the fabric of nature?
c) part of "furniture" of world independent of humans?

If it is subjective it is related to hu ...[text shortened]... of things and the framework of nature, or by the subjective standard of innate right and wrong.

Assuming there is no God to establish an objective standard for right and wrong, (and hard wire us accordingly so that we have a sense of what that right and wrong is) how do you know that what you believe is right or wrong really is right or wrong?

Originally posted by @fmf
I don't think my stance on abortion should be imposed on people and the reasons why I talked people out of it are a personal matter between me and them. Like I said before: No questions about the details of these things, if you don't mind.

Are there any moral standards that you think should be imposed upon people by anyone? If so upon what basis?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Are there any moral standards that you think should be imposed upon people by anyone? If so upon what basis?

Murder. Rape. Robbery. Theft. Blackmail/Extortion. Fraud. Arson. Maybe a few others. Society runs better if there are laws that address and seek to prevent these crimes. Proscription of such behaviour also corresponds to my own morals and to the standards I hold myself to.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Are there any moral standards that you think should be imposed upon people by anyone? If so upon what basis?

Which of your moral principles do you think should be turned into laws by society and thus made obligatory for me and other non-Christians ?

Originally posted by @fmf
Murder. Rape. Robbery. Theft. Blackmail/Extortion. Fraud. Arson. Maybe a few others. Society runs better if there are laws that address and seek to prevent these crimes. Proscription of such behaviour also corresponds to my own morals and to the standards I hold myself to.

If you say that society has the right to impose its morals on its people, then how can you legitimately complain against Nazi Germany or the Jews of the Old Testament since both societies imposed their morals on people?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
If you say that society has the right to impose its morals on its people, then how can you legitimately complain against Nazi Germany or the Jews of the Old Testament since both societies imposed their morals on people?

Are you going to answer my question?

Originally posted by @fmf
Are you going to answer my question?

There was no question in the post that I was replying to. Are you going to answer mine?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
If you say that society has the right to impose its morals on its people, then how can you legitimately complain against Nazi Germany or the Jews of the Old Testament since both societies imposed their morals on people?

We have already discussed the source, nature and purpose of morals, along with what happens when people disagree about what is and isn't morally sound, and we have also already discussed Nazi Germany and we have already discussed the Old Testament. My stance hasn't changed. I refer you to those previous discussions.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
There was no question in the post that I was replying to. Are you going to answer mine?

I have.

Which of your moral principles do you think should be turned into laws by society and thus made obligatory for me and other non-Christians ?

Originally posted by @fmf
We have already discussed the source, nature and purpose of morals, along with what happens when people disagree about what is and isn't morally sound, and we have also already discussed Nazi Germany and we have already discussed the Old Testament. My stance hasn't changed. I refer you to those previous discussions.

That is not what I asked you. I am asking you about the right that society has of imposing its morals upon its people. Let me put it this way, if society determines what is right and wrong, then are the morals derived from society obligatory to all members of society?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
That is not what I asked you. I am asking you about the right that society has of imposing its morals upon its people.

We have discussed it before. Societies impose laws not morals. Go back and look at when we talked about it. I feel no need to repeat myself.