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26 Jun 14
Originally posted by josephwIn follow-up to josephw's analysis of the debating tactics of atheists, I offer this debate on "the most important question of existence" -- the afterlife.
#1. Attack the individual.
a. Ridicule
b. Belittle
c. Insult their intelligence
#2. Obfuscate.
a. Misdirect the course of the discussion
b. Get off topic at all costs
c. Dodge the point
d. Go back to #1
#3. Do not have a sense of humor.
a. Be angry at those of faith because they are the cause of all the wars
b. Do not use smiley faces
c. S ...[text shortened]... hat you really believe.
b. Go back to #2
#5. Do not have a sense of humor.
a. Go back to #3
http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=310719887&m=312489781&live=1
It is from
http://www.npr.org/series/6263392/intelligence-squared-u-s
I wonder if josephw or others would be interested enough to listen and critique the tactics, if they are interested in genuine debate.
26 Jun 14
Originally posted by josephwHow about, when you actually see an example of one of these by an atheist, you link to it here. Then we can discuss whether it really is a valid example and whether your list is factual. At the moment you have given no support evidence for any of them.
#1. Attack the individual.
a. Ridicule
b. Belittle
c. Insult their intelligence
#2. Obfuscate.
a. Misdirect the course of the discussion
b. Get off topic at all costs
c. Dodge the point
d. Go back to #1
#3. Do not have a sense of humor.
a. Be angry at those of faith because they are the cause of all the wars
b. Do not use smiley faces
c. S ...[text shortened]... hat you really believe.
b. Go back to #2
#5. Do not have a sense of humor.
a. Go back to #3
My guess is that you will find quite a lot of #1, some of number 3/5 and precious few to none of #2 and #4.
--- Penguin.
Originally posted by PenguinI believe #3 a. Be angry at those of faith because they are the cause of all the wars should be moved up to a #1 or #2 on the list of Atheists Debate Tactics.
How about, when you actually see an example of one of these by an atheist, you link to it here. Then we can discuss whether it really is a valid example and whether your list is factual. At the moment you have given no support evidence for any of them.
My guess is that you will find quite a lot of #1, some of number 3/5 and precious few to none of #2 and #4.
--- Penguin.
The atheists should sdopt sonhouse as an atheist because he uses all these tactics in his debates. This could be retitled SONHOUSE'S Debate Tactics in my opinion.
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Originally posted by BigDoggProblemI agree with you that many Theist are hurt and quit or pout. Even the bible backs up your point in Jeremiah....
This is all that's left for theism on the RHP Spirituality forums; a bunch of hypocritical candy asses who try to dish out the insults and then get all butt-hurt when they get it paid back with interest.
I feel like 90% of my interactions here with theists aren't of sufficient interest to even be called a 'debate'. The positions taken by RHP ...[text shortened]... y you're not getting any serious responses? Try actually making a serious argument for a change.
Jer 12:5
"If you have run with the footmen, and they have wearied you,
Then how can you contend with horses?
And if in the land of peace,
In which you trusted, they wearied you,
Then how will you do in the floodplain of the Jordan?
NKJV
Personally, I don't care if you believe or not. I would hope you would. But I am not going to pout or get angry with you if you don't.
God still loves you, but to reject such a great sacrifice by his son and ridicule Christians is your choice.
I would hate to be in your shoes though.
Maybe the gospel has not been presented to you in an articulate way, or something that would appeal to you...
In any event I believe at some point in your life and everyone else, for that matter, God revealed himself to all of us.
Some just get a revelation or a sense of awe, simply staring at the night sky, wondering what this meant, how the stars got there.
In our heart of hearts, we just know God is responsible. But in time we harden our hearts listening to all the other voices in the world.
Seriously? I hadn't even looked back in here till just now. I can't believe you guys took this that seriously.
Go back and start again. This time try not to take yourself so seriously. I had a good laugh writing it out.
Hey! Where's the open mind guys. One might think you thought I hated you for some stupid reason!
What are you trying to do? Get me going again?
Keep smiling. 😉
Originally posted by checkbaiterFirst, I've not rejected any 'sacrifice by [god's] son', because I would have to first believe such a sacrifice was made in order to reject it.
I agree with you that many Theist are hurt and quit or pout. Even the bible backs up your point in Jeremiah....
Jer 12:5
"If you have run with the footmen, and they have wearied you,
Then how can you contend with horses?
And if in the land of peace,
In which you trusted, they wearied you,
Then how will you do in the floodplain of the Jordan?
NKJ ...[text shortened]... is responsible. But in time we harden our hearts listening to all the other voices in the world.
You suggest I needed the gospel presented in a more appealing way. This sounds like marketing. I don't care about marketing. I seek truth: the good, the bad, and the ugly.
This is not to say that other truth seekers must all become atheists, as I am, if they do it long enough. On a topic as difficult as god's existence, given the limits of our intelligence, and the limited time to explore the question, and the different personal experiences people have, it is inevitable that people will get different answers.
The main point is that those who got a different answer than you did aren't 'rejecting a gift' at all. You mentioned that you would 'hate to be in [my] shoes' - but I don't think you even understand what the view's like from here.
Originally posted by BigDoggProblemWonder why you're not getting any serious responses? Try actually making a serious argument for a change.
This is all that's left for theism on the RHP Spirituality forums; a bunch of hypocritical candy asses who try to dish out the insults and then get all butt-hurt when they get it paid back with interest.
I feel like 90% of my interactions here with theists aren't of sufficient interest to even be called a 'debate'. The positions taken by RHP ...[text shortened]... y you're not getting any serious responses? Try actually making a serious argument for a change.
I recall a time when I took considerable pains to specify and provide, in outline form, the attributes of God--- it was very technical, precise and complex.
The work wasn't mine, other than the typing, but it was an exhaustive and intensely comprehensive theological overview on the topic of God's attributes.
It was intended to offer some talking points for discussion in language and a format which lent itself to objective examination.
The very first response questioned the legitimacy of the ideas, since they came from the Bible, followed by further mocking.
The next four were more forms of the first.
The fifth questioned the legitimacy of the descriptors on a quasi-metaphysical basis--- essentially ignoring any of the posts up to that point.
On and on, continual mocking instead of discussing the theology provided.
One of the forum's posters with a reputation of scholarship intoned a wish to discuss magical elves, without even a stab at the material.
More mocking, more distractions to the point, on and on it went.
In all, not a single, serious response from one atheist.
Just mocking, distraction, ridicule and small mindedness.
In all, the atheists never came close to speaking to any point of the topic, although one person came somewhat close, by asking (without a hint of irony) "Righteousness - What on earth does this word mean in the first place?"
Other than that self-indictment, despite the serious topic and format of a concise theology on the attributes of God, not a single serious response from even one of the atheists: from the garden-variety pot shots to the so-called intellectual super-powers, every single one of them (nearly all of them still around) deflected discussion on the topic and instead resorted to mockery and ridicule.
This was back in 2006, and literally nothing has changed since then.
27 Jun 14
Originally posted by FreakyKBHTechnical, precise, complex - but was it any good?
[b]Wonder why you're not getting any serious responses? Try actually making a serious argument for a change.
I recall a time when I took considerable pains to specify and provide, in outline form, the attributes of God--- it was very technical, precise and complex.
The work wasn't mine, other than the typing, but it was an exhaustive and intensely co ...[text shortened]... to mockery and ridicule.
This was back in 2006, and literally nothing has changed since then.[/b]
Here's an example of how being smart and using painstaking detail doesn't save you from making bad arguments:
http://creation.com/new-time-dilation-helps-creation-cosmology
27 Jun 14
Originally posted by BigDoggProblemDoes that mean you didn't understand it? If not, then why believe Physicists who spout a Big Bang occurred 13.72 Billion years ago on their word that they have it all figured out, without providing a damn bit of proof that the average person can understand and verify? Isn't that based on your faith in the scientist of your choice?
Technical, precise, complex - but was it any good?
Here's an example of how being smart and using painstaking detail doesn't save you from making bad arguments:
http://creation.com/new-time-dilation-helps-creation-cosmology
27 Jun 14
Originally posted by twhiteheadYou're absolutely right! How do I know what someone else really feels or is thinking when they criticize me?
Have you considered the possibility that when you get ridiculed, belittled etc they are just joking and you need to lighten up? Maybe you don't have the sense of humor you think you have?
It is silly and immature to offend or take offence in this forum. After all, we've been bickering with each other for years now and we keep coming back. Obviously we derive some sort of entertainment from it all, and in my case, I actually have learned quite a bit.
For that I thank you all! 🙂
27 Jun 14
Originally posted by twhiteheadYeah it is all just a big joke. You willingly ignorant numbnuts!
Have you considered the possibility that when you get ridiculed, belittled etc they are just joking and you need to lighten up? Maybe you don't have the sense of humor you think you have?
The Near Genius
😏