Athiest are just as narrow

Originally posted by howardgee
On the contrary!

Most atheists have grown up with religious beliefs all around them, and have learned to reject the spoon fed nonsense.
Thus they have learnt the skill of analytical reasoning and have independent thought.

God Botherers have simply swallowed the spoonfed bull and are unthinking sheep believing everything written in their book of lies ...[text shortened]... n, you would be a Muslim; Israel, a Jew; India a hinhu or buddhist;etc.

Does this bother you?

You miss the point. Religions are one thing, but belief in God is another. You don't have to believe in any religius doctrine to have an instinctual belief in there is something
behind creation. That it can't all be some massive accident ,and that the universe is just here by a major fluke. That belief is far harder for me to get my mind around than anything else.
The athiest who claims to have no belief in God is one thing, but to say that they know for a fact that is no God is just as ridgid a view point as the average Fundamentalist who claims to have all the Truth. Both are in my opinion very narrow outlooks on the nature of things.

Originally posted by Canadaguy
And where do you think maple syrup comes from?
The brave and noble lumberjack leaves his home and heads into the untamed pristine wildlands of Canada to battle the ferocious maple tree and stave off boredom armed with nothing more then his trusty axe and wits. After many months the heroic lumberjack returns triumphant. Those that fail in their quest hang themselves in shame.

One question. Do you know that a God does not exist? If so how ? I think it's impossible to have the answer to that question. Thats why I think an open minded attitude towards these things is more balanced than to dismiss all consideration of a higher power. We are nothing but ants compared to the size of the universe. How can we expect to know all things ? We can't.

Originally posted by buckky
...Religions are one thing, but belief in God is another. You don't have to believe in any religius doctrine to have an instinctual belief in there is something behind creation. That it can't all be some massive accident ,and that the universe is just here by a major fluke.

I know this is off-topic, but who says there was a beginning?

Originally posted by echecero
I know this is off-topic, but who says there was a beginning?

Many astronomers believe that there is evidence pointing towards the universe busy expanding. Extrapolate backwards and Boom! Big collision!

Originally posted by Halitose
Many astronomers believe that there is evidence pointing towards the universe busy expanding. Extrapolate backwards and Boom! Big collision!

Who flipped the switch on the Big Bang ? Where did the switch come from ? It sure does not appear random to me. There appears to be a mind behind the structure of things.

Originally posted by buckky
Who flipped the switch on the Big Bang ? Where did the switch come from ? It sure does not appear random to me. There appears to be a mind behind the structure of things.

I completely agree with you, one can't get order out of random chaos.

Originally posted by Halitose
I completely agree with you, one can't get order out of random chaos.

Can't get order from random chaos? What the heck else would work?! We are here because it did work, whatever happened.

There have been billions of people on Earth for however long Earth has been around. There have been computers on Earth for a very short time. RHP has been around for about 4 years or so... and the Spirits forum has been around for about a year if not less.

What are the chances I would respond to Your post? Pretty slim, right?

Guess what, it just happened. Things just happen sometimes.

P-

Originally posted by Phlabibit
Can't get order from random chaos? What the heck else would work?! We are here because it did work, whatever happened.

There have been billions of people on Earth for however long Earth has been around. There have been computers on Earth for a very short time. RHP has been around for about 4 years or so... and the Spirits forum has been around for ...[text shortened]... post? Pretty slim, right?

Guess what, it just happened. Things just happen sometimes.

P-

It appears to me that things have worked out in very intelligent manner. There is order to the universe. Not complete bedlam. Intelligence appears to be at work in my view.

Originally posted by buckky
It appears to me that things have worked out in very intelligent manner. There is order to the universe. Not complete bedlam. Intelligence appears to be at work in my view.

Not wishing to challenge the overall debate , however the danger is applying an anthropomorphic position to 'the Universe'. Is mans 'intelligence' comparable or even relevant to self-ordering conditions that arise whether you look at termites, wind turbulence off a wing tip, fish migrating, chemical reactions or bacteria. You cannot apply one to another simply because from the human perspective it indicates "intelligence".

This is hearkening back to the 'argument by design' - we see order around us therefore there had to have been some interaction/guidance/'intelligence' ; take that argument and consider the eye - if an omnipotent, omnipresence designed it , then surely it would be perfect and we would see a converging at least in mammalian eye design - on contrary , there are multiple 'eye' types in the animal kingdom and our own is far from well designed - the blind spot is a one example.

Though a thermodynamic vie indicates that the Universe should ultimately lead to a sea of low energy matter, emergence theory produces natural self organising material to the contrary.

The final Universe , or Universes theory of you buy into 'branes, is still out.

As an atheist I , hope, I respect all belief systems to a point- anthropologists estimate there has been some 1200 since civilisation could be adequate identified - however personally am pro human.

Great debate by the way.

Originally posted by Whiskeyjack
Not wishing to challenge the overall debate , however the danger is applying an anthropomorphic position to 'the Universe'. Is mans 'intelligence' comparable or even relevant to self-ordering conditions that arise whether you look at termites, wind turbulence off a wing tip, fish migrating, chemical reactions or bacteria. You cannot apply one to ano ...[text shortened]... tion could be adequate identified - however personally am pro human.

Great debate by the way.

Why do you hate God?

Originally posted by David C
Why do you hate God?

I don't hate 'God'. Given I consider God - and btw who's 'God' across the multiple religions- as largely an anthropological abstraction, culturally useful but largely a socio-cultural artifact, then i cannot assign 'hate' to him or any other relevant human emotion.

Originally posted by Halitose
Many astronomers believe that there is evidence pointing towards the universe busy expanding. Extrapolate backwards and Boom! Big collision!

However, according to the Yo-Yo Theory (the possibility that the universe's density is such that it will eventually "snap back" into that single ball of matter that eventually becomes unstable and causes the "Big Bang"😉, there is no beginning or ending that we can ever see, since total destruction of ordered universe happens on either side of our existence.

Of course, the other possibility (assuming the big bang, and given other densities for the universe), would result in the universe just coming to a halt and being done.