16 Feb 10
Originally posted by jaywillthis comment is very good. but you do know it also admits the possibility of the theory of evolution, old earth theory, the fact that some issues are no longer valid today and so on.
This logic is not impressive to too many readers of the Bible.
If the Bible were REALLY a divine revelation then it should have told us how many planets there were in our solar system.
Jesus should have spent more time to explain about quantum physics rather than the boring stuff about morality.
If the Bible were really God's revelation it shoul ...[text shortened]... handbook meant for every age. But to overcome sin and alienation from God is its message.
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16 Feb 10
Originally posted by josephwHere is proof that you don't even read the Bible. That you cannot be bothered to thumb through the most basic of concordances.
The word demon does not appear in the Bible.
It's devils.
Maybe bacteria are really devils in disguise.
You will, in fact, find the use of "demon" in the NT - unless you don't consider that a part of the Bible.
I think at this point everything you profess from here on can be measured by the idiocy of this statement.
17 Feb 10
1 edit
Originally posted by galveston75I'm sorry to be pedantic again but...you say that the 144000 will be given innortality and that humans will live forever. Whats the difference between immortality and living forever ,iyo?
Well I agree with some you say but as you know, not with all. To be honest it's hard to tell exactly what your saying at times and I don't believe the Bible is that complicated on this subject.
A select group, the Little Flock or 144,000 are the ones going to heaven to rule with Jesus for a thousand years. What they do as well as Jesus after the thous opportunity that was given to Adam and Eve. Nothing has changed from God's original purpose.
Also , do you mean to say that ALL humans will live forever? Even the evi/ignorant ones? How are the evil/ignorant ones going to live with the good ones( who missed out on being a part of the 144000)? Will there not be conflict?
(So many questions,please G75, enlighten me. The JW doctrine is so weirdđ )
18 Feb 10
Originally posted by Renarsactually immortality means that you have life within yourself. Living forever means just that and is made with respect to duration of time. It does not suggest however that you have life within yourself.
well, I do remember seeing this quote somewhere: [b]Eternal is longer than Forever[/b]
18 Feb 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieso you will live forever but not be alive? or does it mean you have life, not within yourself though, but in a jar somewhere? and the 144000 have their lives with them, not in a jar.
actually immortality means that you have life within yourself. Living forever means just that and is made with respect to duration of time. It does not suggest however that you have life within yourself.
so the reward for being in the top 144000 humans of all time is you get to carry your life with you at all times?
18 Feb 10
2 edits
Originally posted by BadwaterBadwater, a few days ago you complained that post that I wrote only indicated spiritual shallowness.
Here is proof that you don't even read the Bible. That you cannot be bothered to thumb through the most basic of concordances.
You will, in fact, find the use of "demon" in the NT - unless you don't consider that a part of the Bible.
I think at this point everything you profess from here on can be measured by the idiocy of this statement.
Okay, I want you to know that since, I have been waiting to see something of greater spiritual weight to come from you then.
I do not mind someone suggesting that I am shallow. But I am still reading and waiting to see something "deeper" from you.
You're being clocked and timed.
18 Feb 10
Originally posted by ZahlanziThe Greek word athanasia is formed by the negative prefix a followed by a form of the word for “death” (thanatos). Thus, the basic meaning is “deathlessness,” and refers to the quality of life that is enjoyed, its endlessness and indestructibility. (1Co 15:53, 54, ; 1Ti 6:16, ) The Greek word aphtharsia, meaning “incorruption,” refers to that which cannot decay or be corrupted, that which is imperishable.—Ro 2:7; 1Co 15:42, 50, 53; Eph 6:24; 2Ti 1:10.
so you will live forever but not be alive? or does it mean you have life, not within yourself though, but in a jar somewhere? and the 144000 have their lives with them, not in a jar.
so the reward for being in the top 144000 humans of all time is you get to carry your life with you at all times?
The expressions “immortal” or “immortality” do not occur in the Hebrew Scriptures, which do show, however, that Jehovah God, as the Source of all life, is not subject to death, hence, is immortal. (Ps 36:7, 9; 90:1, 2; Hab 1:12) This fact is also emphatically stated by the Christian apostle Paul in referring to God as “the King of eternity, incorruptible.”—1Ti 1:17.
The first one described in the Bible as rewarded with the gift of immortality is Jesus Christ. That he did not possess immortality before his resurrection by God is seen from the inspired apostle’s words at Romans 6:9: “Christ, now that he has been raised up from the dead, dies no more; death is master over him no more.” (Compare Re 1:17, 18.) For this reason, when describing him as “the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords,” 1 Timothy 6:15, 16 shows that Jesus is distinct from all such other kings and lords in that he is “the one alone having immortality.” The other kings and lords, because of being mortal, die, even as did also the high priests of Israel. The glorified Jesus, God’s appointed High Priest after the order of Melchizedek, however, has “an indestructible life.”—Heb 7:15-17, 23-25.
The word “indestructible” here translates the Greek term akatalytos, meaning, literally, “indissoluble.” (Heb 7:16) The word is a compound of the negative prefix a joined to other words relating to a “loosening down,” as in Jesus statement regarding the loosening down or throwing down of the stones of the temple at Jerusalem (Mt 24:1, 2), as well as in Paul’s reference to the loosening down of the earthly “tent” of Christians, that is, the dissolving of their earthly life in human bodies. (2Co 5:1) Thus, the immortal life granted Jesus upon his resurrection is not merely endless but is beyond deterioration or dissolution and is beyond destruction.
For the anointed Christians called to reign with Christ in the heavens (1Pe 1:3, 4), the promise is that they share with Christ in the likeness of his resurrection. (Ro 6:5) Thus, as in the case of their Lord and Head, the anointed members of the Christian congregation who die faithful receive a resurrection to immortal spirit life, so that “this which is mortal puts on immortality.” (1Co 15:50-54) As with Jesus, immortality in their case does not mean simply everlasting life, or mere freedom from death. That they, too, are granted “the power of an indestructible life” as fellow heirs with Christ is seen from the apostle Paul’s association of incorruptibility with the immortality they attain. (1Co 15:42-49) Over them “the second death has no authority.”
18 Feb 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieok i will humor you. i still don't get it and i still don't see where you explain the difference between immortal and living forever but let's continue.
The Greek word athanasia is formed by the negative prefix a followed by a form of the word for “death” (thanatos). Thus, the basic meaning is “deathlessness,” and refers to the quality of life that is enjoyed, its endlessness and indestructibility. (1Co 15:53, 54, ; 1Ti 6:16, ) The Greek word aphtharsia, meaning “incorruption,” refers to that which c ...[text shortened]... with the immortality they attain. (1Co 15:42-49) Over them “the second death has no authority.”
the 144000 will be like jesus (or close), possibly beings of energy? possibly like the elite class of souls? noble souls?
the other peeps, the ones not burning in hell, will live forever? but if they stab each other for fun they will still die? or will they wont but they will have a knife hole in their chests forever? will they be able to catch diseases?
18 Feb 10
Originally posted by Zahlanzifirstly there are completely different words for everlasting life and immortality, and which you would expect have different shades of meaning, if not completely different. The point that i was trying to help you understand was that a person who is immortal, has life within themselves, this is not true of those who have everlasting life, who although they receive the gift of eternal life, are still dependent upon God for that life.
ok i will humor you. i still don't get it and i still don't see where you explain the difference between immortal and living forever but let's continue.
the 144000 will be like jesus (or close), possibly beings of energy? possibly like the elite class of souls? noble souls?
the other peeps, the ones not burning in hell, will live forever? but if they st ...[text shortened]... but they will have a knife hole in their chests forever? will they be able to catch diseases?
These ideas of souls are not compatible will revealed biblical evidence for souls are not immortal, the scripture indicate that in many instances, the soul can die, thus as we have seen, this is not something that can happen when the possessor has the property of immortality.
Hell is not a biblical doctrine. It is pre Christian and pagan, despite the protestations of main stream Christianity.
It should be noted that those who receive the gift of everlasting life need not fear being stabbed by each other, for violence against another another person is unlikely given the disposition of those who may be deemed worthy. Secondly it is understood that the perfect state to which they shall slowly attain is a state of relative perfection, otherwise one would expect to score a break of 147 every time one plays at snooker, or play perfect chess resulting in draws all the time and a negation of the games imbalances which make it worth playing initially.
when one cuts oneself at present, the body is induced to produce process which enable it to heal itself. thus when you cut your face shaving, it heals up. There is no reason why this process , given the right circumstances cannot go on perpetually. As yet science indeed does not know what causes ageing and why the process of regeneration does not take place, perpetually, as you are no doubt aware.
19 Feb 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieok so the difference between immortal and mortal is that the former could give god the finger or throw water baloons at him and god couldn't do anything because the person has life withing himself. but if the one with everlasting life gives god the finger, god could kill him and/or his soul?
firstly there are completely different words for everlasting life and immortality, and which you would expect have different shades of meaning, if not completely different. The point that i was trying to help you understand was that a person who is immortal, has life within themselves, this is not true of those who have everlasting life, who althoug ...[text shortened]... and why the process of regeneration does not take place, perpetually, as you are no doubt aware.
19 Feb 10
2 edits
Originally posted by Zahlanziwell, not so much in those terms, but kind of. You see my friend, the universe shall be at harmony, no giving fingers, no throwing water balloons, the issue of universal sovereignty shall have been settled once and for all, no longer shall anyone be able to claim that moral independence from God has proven to be beneficial.
ok so the difference between immortal and mortal is that the former could give god the finger or throw water baloons at him and god couldn't do anything because the person has life withing himself. but if the one with everlasting life gives god the finger, god could kill him and/or his soul?