Either God's righteousness or ours.
From Romans 10
For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
John 6:15
Perceiving then that they were about to come and take him by force to make him king, Jesus withdrew again to the mountain by himself.
Jesus is the King! He is not going to be the King we want, He is the King of the universe! Jesus is not King by our choices, not by our wants, instead of trying to put God into the box we want God to be conformed to the God we want. Instead, we need to go to God and ask Him how we should conform to the image of Christ as He wants because He is God and we are not.
17 Nov 23
@kellyjay saidCaution: People here don't like the word "sanctify" because it is too close to "sanctimonious", and they get all "angrified" about it.
Sanctify: a word that shows something is set apart and called to make something different, God sanctifies us unto Himself and we are called to sanctify God unto us. Those who do not do this or have God do it to them are avoiding God and running from Him. We are called to abide in Christ, we are called to be connected to the vine who is Christ that we might produce good fru ...[text shortened]... an answer to every man who asketh you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear.
18 Nov 23
@kellyjay saidFrom John R.W. Stott "The Cross of Christ"
Can anyone do the righteous works of God without first being made righteous by God? If all our good works are simply our own done in our power or piety, then are not all our good works, not done with God so they are simply ours? Will God accept them as enough for our righteousness to enter into His Kingdom?
No, because the Father seeks those who will worship in Spirit a ...[text shortened]... sus Christ, without the Son you do not have the Father, without the Spirit of God you are not God's.
"Grace and faith belong indissolubly to one another, since faith's only function is to receive what grace freely offers. We are not, therefore, justified by our faith, as we are justified by God's grace and by Christ's blood. God's grace is the source and Christ's blood the ground of our justification; faith is only the means by which we are united to Christ. As Richard Hooker put it with his unusual precision: "God doth justify the believing man, yet not for the worthiness of he belief, but for the worthiness who is believed."
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Our righteousness isn't due to us, but to Christ Jesus, and when instead of looking vertically to God for all that is required if we look horizontally at who we deem worthy and who we think should merit it, we are looking in the wrong place, for all the wrong reasons.
Highly recommend this book, very deep.
23 Nov 23
@divegeester saidIs this you being a pleasant contributor?
Is there anything in it explaining why a rape victim should forgive her assailant, but God won’t forgive non Christians?
If there is I’ll give it a read.
23 Nov 23
@kellyjay saidYour fixation on being “justified” is noted.
From John R.W. Stott "The Cross of Christ"
"Grace and faith belong indissolubly to one another, since faith's only function is to receive what grace freely offers. We are not, therefore, justified by our faith, as we are justified by God's grace and by Christ's blood. God's grace is the source and Christ's blood the ground of our justification; faith is only the means by wh ...[text shortened]... are looking in the wrong place, for all the wrong reasons.
Highly recommend this book, very deep.
23 Nov 23
@suzianne saidI’m responding to a point of morality KellyJay made recently.
Is this you being a pleasant contributor?
He asserted that a rape victim should forgive their assailant because is it spiritually good for them to forgive. However KellyJay’s particular version of God will not forgive anyone who is not a Christian of their sins and will in fact torture them in flames for eternity.
I’m struggling to understand how anyone can hold to this construct of what appears to me to be a morally incomprehensible contradiction.
What say you on the matter?
23 Nov 23
@moonbus saidWell, it isn't just justification that matters, it is all interrelated, justification is only necessary if there is guilt involved, I don't believe anyone has ever suggested we are not guilty of doing wrong. Righteousness is involved because you cannot just sweep guilt under the rug and ignore it, because that soils goodness as well as righteousness, so being justified and having that done in such a way that satisfies goodness, righteousness, mercy, and love matters, outside of the cross of Christ there is nothing that can do that, and all of that is on God's initiative, not ours, as another said, the only thing we bring to our salvation is the guilt of our sin.
Your fixation on being “justified” is noted.
23 Nov 23
@kellyjay saidMassive furball there KellyJay.
Well, it isn't just justification that matters, it is all interrelated, justification is only necessary if there is guilt involved, I don't believe anyone has ever suggested we are not guilty of doing wrong. Righteousness is involved because you cannot just sweep guilt under the rug and ignore it, because that soils goodness as well as righteousness, so being justified and ...[text shortened]... iative, not ours, as another said, the only thing we bring to our salvation is the guilt of our sin.
You ok?
23 Nov 23
@kellyjay saidYour fixation on misanthropy is noted.
Well, it isn't just justification that matters, it is all interrelated, justification is only necessary if there is guilt involved, I don't believe anyone has ever suggested we are not guilty of doing wrong. Righteousness is involved because you cannot just sweep guilt under the rug and ignore it, because that soils goodness as well as righteousness, so being justified and ...[text shortened]... iative, not ours, as another said, the only thing we bring to our salvation is the guilt of our sin.