Originally posted by @fmfSquabbles between anyone. God is the master not me. Your issues are between you and God. I am out of the loop and leave you to God.
Romans 14 appears to appears to be about squabbles between Christians ~ about things like dietary rules. Was your OP only about such squabbles between Christians? It didn't read like that. Is there some other passage from the Bible you have that supports your OP?
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Originally posted by @fmfIt is interesting how you characterize Romans 14.
Romans 14 appears to appears to be about squabbles between Christians ~ about things like dietary rules. Was your OP only about such squabbles between Christians? It didn't read like that. Is there some other passage from the Bible you have that supports your OP?
Your view seems inherently negative.
Ie. "This chapter is about squabbles between Christians."
I would say it is about principles of receiving one another as Christians for the assembly life.
I would describe the chapter as:
Ie. "Guidelines for accommodation, tolerance, mutual respect and reception into the local church."
The first verse in the chapter really sets the overall tone.
"Now him who is weak in faith receive, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his considerations." (v.1)
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Paul knew that the local assembly was not a utopia of uniformity.
Differing opinions about practices, traditions, and things are unavoidable.
Romans 14, 15 lays out some guidelines on brothers and sisters in Christ receiving one another. They can be general about many things.
Ie. The general principle in verse 15.
"For if because of food your brother is wounded, you no longer walk according to love. Do not destroy by your food that man for whom Christ died." (Rom. 14:15)
21 Dec 17
Originally posted by @sonshipRecognizing that God is Lord and you are not does not equal mutual respect. Paul does not claim that people who ate meat should have respect for those who are wrong.
It is interesting how you characterize [b]Romans 14.
Your view seems inherently negative.
Ie. "This chapter is about squabbles between Christians."
I would say it is about principles of receiving one another as Christians for the assembly life.
I would describe the chapter as:
Ie. "Guidelines for accommodation, tolerance, mutual respect ...[text shortened]... , but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his considerations." (v.1) [/b] [/quote][/b]
Originally posted by @eladarWRONG? About eating meat? You do realize humankind thousands of years ago ate meat and not much else, right? This meat thing was the direct result of pork having parasites and your precious god keeping the real reason not to eat pork, for instance, that god could have said, Look guys and gals, pork has this problem, there are little tiny animals inside it that will make you sick if you do not boil the hell out of it which kills the little animals inside and then it is safe to eat.'
Recognizing that God is Lord and you are not does not equal mutual respect. Paul does not claim that people who ate meat should have respect for those who are wrong.
NO, what comes down is 'Don't eat pork' or don't eat meat mixed with milk' or some such rot.
I am not saying eating meat is better than being a vegan, I am saying the strictures forbidding eating pork was done not by a god but by dudes inserting their words and then convincing the rest of the world those words were passed down to that dude who wrote them out and now we can't eat bacon. THANKS A LOT.
The fact there was no actual teaching by your god but instead, an edict, is CLEAR evidence that a god did not write the anti pork edict.
Your god didn't tell you about a LOT of things did it.
Like For KRIST"S sake don't make pipes out of lead, don't make drinking glasses out of leaded glass, we now know full well the problems THAT leads to. But the Romans certainly did both of those things and it is thought that to be a contributor to the fall of the Roman empire, they just dumbed themselves down.
Funny no god ever mentioned a WORD about how bad lead is for you, or mercury, or any of a number of other elements.
OH, I get it now.
You will bring out the 'fall of man' card. Kicked out of paradise what the hell do you expect?
Funny this god didn't mention lead or parasites in the garden either.
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Originally posted by @eladarFirst, I admit I have not followed this thread in detail from the beginning.
Recognizing that God is Lord and you are not does not equal mutual respect. Paul does not claim that people who ate meat should have respect for those who are wrong.
I see the chapter of Romans 14,15, and the whole book for that matter, to be a letter to BELIEVERS for whom it is a given that they realize God is the Lord and not themselves.
In the church it is a given that the participants recognize in principle that God is the Lord and not any one of the saved.
He is speaking to those whom Christ has received - Christians.
"Therefore receive one another, as Christ also received you to the glory of God." (15:7)
So we start with all people who are within the sphere of Christ's life and the Holy Spirit's fellowship. Now, within that realm he says in essence -
Don't let your insistence that everyone be like you in some aspect of practice which is non-essential, wound the mutuality of love and unity in the local church.
It is much the same as Matthew's principles of living in the kingdom of the heavens. Christians must learn to be strict towards themselves but accommodating towards others.
It is also not unlike First Corinthians 13 which stresses agape love over other things.
"Now there abide faith, hope, love, these three; and the greatest of these is love." (1 Cor. 13:13)
You see, divine love is the evidence of divine life. We know that we have passed out of death into life because we have divine love for the brothers in Christ (1 John 3:14) .
21 Dec 17
Originally posted by @sonhouseWrong in believing that eating meat is worshipping false gods.
WRONG? About eating meat? You do realize humankind thousands of years ago ate meat and not much else, right? This meat thing was the direct result of pork having parasites and your precious god keeping the real reason not to eat pork, for instance, that god could have said, Look guys and gals, pork has this problem, there are little tiny animals inside it ...[text shortened]... he hell do you expect?
Funny this god didn't mention lead or parasites in the garden either.
You really are quite ignorant for someone raised in a Christian home.
21 Dec 17
Originally posted by @bigdoggproblemWould it be possible for you? As of right now?
It might be possible. But it takes care and caution. Those are grand claims.
The widespread use of term "faith" indicates the difficulty of meeting this evidentiary burden.
21 Dec 17
Originally posted by @eladarEating meat is worshipping false gods? The fact that your god SAYS there are false gods indicates there is a heirarchy of gods out there, where the BIG guy is boss and has some bad boy relatives but godly enough to convince any human it (the bad boy god) is a god, heal the sick, raise the dead, and such.
Wrong in believing that eating meat is worshipping false gods.
You really are quite ignorant for someone raised in a Christian home.
But hey, believe what you want, I don't need such a heirarchy of supernatural bullshyte in my life.
21 Dec 17
Originally posted by @sonhouseEating meat is not viewed as worshipping false gods today but it was back then.
Eating meat is worshipping false gods? The fact that your god SAYS there are false gods indicates there is a heirarchy of gods out there, where the BIG guy is boss and has some bad boy relatives but godly enough to convince any human it (the bad boy god) is a god, heal the sick, raise the dead, and such.
But hey, believe what you want, I don't need such a heirarchy of supernatural bullshyte in my life.
You really are quite ignorant of the Bible. I guess when you were a kid you didn't read your Bible. Those in your household probably didn't either. Growing up in such a family makes it easy to see how you turned out as you did.
Originally posted by @eladarI went to Lutheran school from K to 8th grade. We studied catachism more than bible actually, you can thank the Lutherans for that🙂 Lutherans are half Catholic.....I have my grandma to thank for releasing my mind from the shackles of religion. She was Pentacostal and swore to me when I was 8 years old, I would die and go to hell if I wasn't baptized in the PENTACOSTAL way (total dunking, they had a thousand gallon tank just for that on the alter) I said sure, and they did, and that was when I realized something was seriously wrong with this religion thing. Get a pat of water on head at Lutheran Church, go to hell? That was the deciding factor for my little 8 YO self. From then on it was Yada Yada Yada lookiing quite sincere but inside cringing. After HS and start of college and then into the USAF I was free of all that and quite thankful to Grandma for releasing me.
Eating meat is not viewed as worshipping false gods today but it was back then.
You really are quite ignorant of the Bible. I guess when you were a kid you didn't read your Bible. Those in your household probably didn't either. Growing up in such a family makes it easy to see how you turned out as you did.
22 Dec 17
Originally posted by @sonhouseTrue, Lutherans are more about Luther's Catechism than they are about the Bible. If they cared to read their Bibles they would know that pastors do not hold the keys to heaven and you are not saved by the sacraments.
I went to Lutheran school from K to 8th grade. We studied catachism more than bible actually, you can thank the Lutherans for that🙂 Lutherans are half Catholic.....I have my grandma to thank for releasing my mind from the shackles of religion. She was Pentacostal and swore to me when I was 8 years old, I would die and go to hell if I wasn't baptized in th ...[text shortened]... ge and then into the USAF I was free of all that and quite thankful to Grandma for releasing me.
If you had read and studied your Bible I would not need to explain it to you.