Belief

Originally posted by Rajk999
The dead and ignorant of Christ will be raised ?
I will be interested in biblical support for this view, because its contrary to passages which claim that there are some who will remain dead and never be raised. You seem to think that ALL people will be raised, good, bad and indifferent.

Check it out in the Bible...it's there.

Originally posted by buckky
How ugly How hidious. How evil. That's the Christian doctrine for you. Down right ugly.

wrong.
that is the dystoniac doctrine. a doctrine that, to quote the 13th apostle, "takes god as a burden instead of a blessing"


you will die and go to hell if you don't believe in jesus. you will die and go to hell if you are a protestant and not a catholic. you will die and go to hell if you eat pork on fridays. you will die and go to hell if you are a pediatrician and have saved lots of children from dying or suffering.


you will die and go to heaven if you rape and kill 1000 5 year old children if you trully repent on your deathbed and accept jesus. you will die and go to heaven if you are a god-fearing redneck and disown your gay son. you will die and go to heaven if you murder lots of heathens in god's name(inquisitors and crusaders).


horrible doctrine i agree. but you are wrong in claiming this is christianity and you are wrong in dismissing it entirely. if i have a bag of different colored Haribos and i don't like the red ones, i would not throw away the whole bag, because the yellow and the greens are quite delicious.

Originally posted by dystoniac
Answers to you questions can be found in the Bible. I challenge you to find them.

i am sure he got that answer before 😀

Originally posted by dystoniac
Answers to you questions can be found in the Bible. I challenge you to find them.

Sorry, not interested.

Originally posted by dystoniac
You don't understand what is going on. First, yes, Jesus is the only way to salvation. Everybody who hears the word of God and His requirements to enter into the Kingdom of God and obeys God's laws and worships Him through His son Jesus Christ will inherit Heaven. Those who hear the word of God and do not accept the gift of life, through faith in Jesus ...[text shortened]... ave had a chance, either in this life or the life to come, to either accept or reject Christ.

i am having trouble understanding the words "those that didn't hear the word of jesus will be given the chance to accept him"

So lets see if i got it right. The muslims, the jews, the atheists etc who lived great lives will be cast down in a lake of fire for having a TV, listening to jerry falwell talk about jesus and how gays will be thrown in hell (and dismissing christianity for maybe the reason that jerry is a psychotic hateful freak of nature) will be thrown into the fiery pits of hell? Whereas the people who live in the jungles of the amazon will be given a chance to accept jesus. When will they be given that chance? when at the final judgement they will be confronted with J and will be given this choice "Believe that i who stands before you right now am real and i will save you and you will be saved"?

If that is true, do you realize how completely evil and illogical this sounds? The muslims and the jews and all the rest of the heathens were asked to trust in a character that they never saw, and may have lived 2000 years or more ago. and the other dudes will be asked to trust in a character that is standing in front of them, talking to them, who just threw satan into a fiery pit of eternal delight?

Are you freakin kidding me? I am surprised that a character like you is allowed on the computer without supervision

Originally posted by twhitehead
Sorry, not interested.

I challenge you as well. in fact i dare you. read the bible 😀

Originally posted by dystoniac
Yo, dude, nobody's twisting your arm to accept the truth. I suppose spending eternity separated from God isn't 'hidious', 'ugly', and 'evil'?
What do you want?

You are the one that cannot except the truth. The truth is the Bible is just another religious book with many insane things within it. The truth is you have fallen prey to the same kind of thinking that the KKK has. If you are not white you must be some kind of animal. You think that if you are not a Christian you must be in cahoots with Satan. Thats the sick twisted thinking that has caused all kind of problems throughout history. Hell is a cruel, and unusal punishment for not seeing something a certain way. Very evil my friend. You need to get right with God.

Originally posted by dystoniac
Yo, dude, nobody's twisting your arm to accept the truth. I suppose spending eternity separated from God isn't 'hidious', 'ugly', and 'evil'?
What do you want?

What I want is some kind of sanity. What you believe is insane, and devoid of even everyday common goodness The average man has more compassion towards others than what you claim the Creator of the universe has. A mean spirited God is not my cup of tea. Sorry but that's my problem. The angry God idea is a primitive and dangerous concept.

Originally posted by buckky
What I want is some kind of sanity. What you believe is insane, and devoid of even everyday common goodness The average man has more compassion towards others than what you claim the Creator of the universe has. A mean spirited God is not my cup of tea. Sorry but that's my problem. The angry God idea is a primitive and dangerous concept.

You live in the woods. You 're cold, and hungry. You need shelter. You 're barely human.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Many Christians I have talked to would disagree with you. I have even asked an Anglican priest that question and he told the parable of the sheep and the goats and said he believed that how you lived mattered more than what you believed.

How you live matters more than what you believe? Excuse me but doesn't what you believe dictate how you live? If not, do you really believe what you espouse to believe?

As I have said many times before on these threads, what you believe is perhaps the most important of all. This is because we all have a tendency to look at the same world with different shades of belief. As a result, we all have different conclusions about the exact same world around us and then live our lives accordingly.

Originally posted by whodey
How you live matters more than what you believe? Excuse me but doesn't what you believe dictate how you live? If not, do you really believe what you espouse to believe?

As I have said many times before on these threads, what you believe is perhaps the most important of all. This is because we all have a tendency to look at the same world with different ...[text shortened]... different conclusions about the exact same world around us and then live our lives accordingly.

actually you are wrong. what you believe is not important. it matters what your actions are. you may be a devout christian in your belief(like torquemada) and be a murderous maniac in your actions.

A certain action doesn't come from just one belief. there is no cause and effect between the two most of the time. we break our beliefs all the time. and most importantly, if at some times there is a cause and effect between belief and action, the same action can result from several systems of belief.

so most important is the result. the action. that is why it is useless to discuss the superiority of one belief system over another without discussing the action resulting from them

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
actually you are wrong. what you believe is not important. it matters what your actions are. you may be a devout christian in your belief(like torquemada) and be a murderous maniac in your actions.

A certain action doesn't come from just one belief. there is no cause and effect between the two most of the time. we break our beliefs all the time. and most ...[text shortened]... superiority of one belief system over another without discussing the action resulting from them

But I would contend that what comes before an action is a thought process that initiates that action. In other words, it all begins in the mind and our beliefs are a part of the mix in this regard.

Originally posted by whodey
But I would contend that what comes before an action is a thought process that initiates that action. In other words, it all begins in the mind and our beliefs are a part of the mix in this regard.

beliefs do not include wants. and i wants a million dollars and i might steal, cheat, hurt people to get it even if i believe it is wrong.

beliefs are a part of the conscious process that precedes an action. but if beliefs are not always responsible for actions, and differently formulated beliefs can output the same action, then beliefs are not more important that actions.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
[b]beliefs do not include wants. and i wants a million dollars and i might steal, cheat, hurt people to get it even if i believe it is wrong.

But on some level you are telling yourself that you believe you will be better off if you steal the money even though you believe it is wrong. For such a person, the belief that you will come out on top in the end is the belief that drives you whether you recognize it as such or not.

Originally posted by whodey
Excuse me but doesn't what you believe dictate how you live? If not, do you really believe what you espouse to believe?

I am not sure how much what you believe influences how you live. I certainly know they are not equivalent.
Do you believe that lying is wrong?
Have you knowingly lied whilst still maintaining this belief?
Have you done other things you believed to be wrong?

Also your argument ignores the question of which is more important, faith or works. If someone does something good because he believes it is right, does it matter that his belief that it was right was founded on the wrong things?

I think most of us make most of our moral judgments without really thinking about it based on our internal moral compass not on what we believe - or claim to believe.

I do think that many people claiming to be theists are actually agnostics playing a 'just in case' game.