Believers, how does your god talk to you?

Originally posted by kirksey957
There was a play some time ago and I wish I could remember the name of it. Basically, it was a reinterpretation of Moses and the Golden Calf except that the "golden calf" was breast implants. So I am guessing the idolatry was the need for image making and "perfection."

Yeah--perfectionism...

EDIT: In your ministry, do you ever see that with regard to religious belief, or fear that someone's faith is not perfect enough, or that God requires perfection...?

Originally posted by vistesd
Yeah--perfectionism...

EDIT: In your ministry, do you ever see that with regard to religious belief, or fear that someone's faith is not perfect enough, or that God requires perfection...?

All the time. After all does it not say "be perfect even as you Father in heaven is perfect." Of course I have a different interpretation of this. I think the better translation is mature, but I didn't remember a lot of Greek.

I tend to see perfectionism more in the most fundamentalist.

Originally posted by kirksey957
All the time. After all does it not say "be perfect even as you Father in heaven is perfect." Of course I have a different interpretation of this. I think the better translation is mature, but I didn't remember a lot of Greek.

I tend to see perfectionism more in the most fundamentalist.

Okay, I looked it up: you’re right. The Greek is teleios, meaning being mature, fully-developed, full-grown, undivided, whole, complete—I think I also saw it once translated as ripe...

Originally posted by vistesd
Okay, I looked it up: you’re right. The Greek is teleios, meaning being mature, fully-developed, full-grown, undivided, whole, complete—I think I also saw it once translated as ripe...

There is that passage in the Gospel of Thomas "What you use within you will save you and what you do not use will destroy you" (as I recall) is a wonderful anecdote to perfectionism.

Originally posted by vistesd
Actually, I might see Jesus, as the Christ, being a real ikon of the logos tou theou, who realized his true nature as such. And the gospel message being, in part, that we too are such ikons, but we fail to realize that; this is probably a fair summary of the Greek Orthodox understanding of “the fall”—whether one takes that as a o lurch" with that, I really cannot expand on that further because I'm still thinking it out.)

So you would say that sin is an illusion. Interesting. However, I must say that I have sinned and it is some realistic illusion to say the least. I would go so far to say that it does not exist, however. For me, sin is simply a deviance from the love message that comes from a God of love. You could compare sin with the concept of being cold. The term cold is simply a measurement of a lack of heat. Coldness cannot be measured and does not exist. Darkness is also another example. Darkness does not exist but is simply a term to describe an absence of light. In this respect I would say it has an illusionary quality. As for me, however, you might say that my heart has grown cold and dark at various times in my life. I prefer the warmth and light given to me by my Lord, however.

Originally posted by kirksey957
There is that passage in the Gospel of Thomas "What you use within you will save you and what you do not use will destroy you" (as I recall) is a wonderful anecdote to perfectionism.

Just found out this evening that an old friend of mine died yesterday. Hadn’t seen in some years, but when he was younger, he was one of those people who just seemed to shine, so that it was a joy just be around him.

When he was young, all he wanted to be was a ballplayer. He fought against his family for his dream, and spent some years in the minor leagues before giving it up to take over the family business (which is what he was “supposed” to do in the first place). I hope he was able to keep that “shine” till the end, and shine it on himself too. I hope he never had any lingering sense of incompleteness...

Originally posted by KellyJay
I don't believe God would have.
Kelly

I ment to ask you this question earlier but I got side tracked. Why do you think God would not have destroyed Ninavah had they not repented? Is it because you do not believe that the God of the Bible as capable of killing as in the stories of Noah's ark and Sodom and Ghommora and the conquests of the Holy Land or is there another reason?

Originally posted by whodey
So you would say that sin is an illusion. Interesting. However, I must say that I have sinned and it is some realistic illusion to say the least. I would go so far to say that it does not exist, however. For me, sin is simply a deviance from the love message that comes from a God of love. You could compare sin with the concept of being cold. The term c ...[text shortened]... old and dark at various times in my life. I prefer the warmth and light given to me by my Lord.

Well, I might say that the root of sin is illusion. Sin—again as error or failure, with or without moral culpability (that is, whether it involves what we would call wrongdoing, or not)—may also include clinging to illusion.

By “illusion” I do not mean something that isn’t actual; I mean seeing things as other than they truly are. Although they are often used synonymously, I use “delusion” to mean seeing something that isn’t really there at all. That’s just my personal vocabulary. So I don’t think we’re far apart there.

Originally posted by vistesd
Just found out this evening that an old friend of mine died yesterday. Hadn’t seen in some years, but when he was younger, he was one of those people who just seemed to shine, so that it was a joy just be around him.

When he was young, all he wanted to be was a ballplayer. He fought against his family for his dream, and spent some years in the mi ...[text shortened]... end, and shine it on himself too. I hope he never had any lingering sense of incompleteness...

Sorry to hear about your friend. :'(

Originally posted by whodey
Sorry to hear about your friend. :'(

Thank you, Whodey. It is appreciated. He and I grew up together. We weren't the best of friends, but we were friends. Went our separate ways, and had occassional contact over the years. He's on my mind a bit tonight...

Originally posted by vistesd
Well, I might say that the root of sin is illusion. Sin—again as error or failure, with or without moral culpability (that is, whether it involves what we would call wrongdoing, or not)—may also include clinging to illusion.

By “illusion” I do not mean something that isn’t actual; I mean seeing things as other than they truly are. Although they are oft ...[text shortened]... ally there at all. That’s just my personal vocabulary. So I don’t think we’re far apart there.

As I see 'sin' it is a breaking from reality, so having illusion within the
the mix seems a natural one. For me sin is when we break reality with
things like stealing, since when that occurs where someone takes from
the rightful owner. lies the breaking of truth knowingly, and sins
against one's own self when one acts against one's own faith, since
doing anything out faith is sin. Example would be someone who thinks
eating pork is wrong should not do it. I'd also point out that the two
great Commandments love God and your neighbor would mean
anyone not living their life with those as a motivating guides would be
sinning too.
Kelly