"Better yet, while your in the shower... "
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast." Ephesians 2:8-9
"For by grace you have been saved through..." empirical experience? Nope.
"For by grace you have been saved through..." rationalism? Nope.
"For by grace you have been saved through..." changing my personality? Nope
"For by grace you have been saved through..." giving up some of my pleasures? Nope
"For by grace you have been saved through..." positive thinking? Nope.
"For by grace you have been saved through..." being nice to people I can't stand? Nope.
"For by grace you have been saved through..." joining a church? Nope.
"For by grace you have been saved through..." making charitable donations to worthy causes? Nope.
"For by grace you have been saved through..." making an effort to help God save the planet? Nope.
"For by grace you have been saved through..." doing nice things for other people? Nope.
"For by grace you have been saved through..." arguing with people in online spirituality forums? Nope.
"For by grace you have been saved through..." denying my soul's existence? Nope.
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast." Ephesians 2:8-9 Why? Because faith is nonmeritorious. Christ did the work of satisfying the Father's Justice and Righteousness [Divine Integrity] through His substitutionary spiritual death in hypostatic union [perfect humanity and undiminished deity in one person forever]; Christ's work was done with you personally in mind. A grace gift is being offered [a gift that none of us can ever deserve or earn]. Accept it or reject it: either way, it's a decision with eternal consequences and it's a decision each of us make. There is no second chance or pardon by default after physical death.
"And inasmuch as it is [laid up] appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment." Hebrews 9:27
James described human life on earth is as "a fleeting vapor trail". Even if your eventual obituary reads "___ _____ departed this life at the age of 100 years of natural causes" it's brief. Chances are that some of us here today may breathe our final breath before the calendar changes to January 2, 2015 (as the result of an accident or sudden illness or botched cranial surgery to remove a malignant cancerous tumor). Some of us may be around for decades, periodically publically affirming our rejection of the Risen Christ. Why? It's too simple; it's so simple it's an insult to my high level of intelligence. Please think about these momentous things while your driving alone on an important mission. Better yet, while your in the shower or tub or standing naked before your bathroom vanity mirror. Why? Because within that venue it's virtually impossible to escape an awareness of your physical imperfections, frailities and mortality. Unit of measure of life: one day at a time.
Think about this Red Hot Pawn Spirituality Forum thread and about your clever posts and cowardly Thumbs Down that gained or reinforced the approval of your likeminded friends. Then think again about yourself and the eternal destiny of your soul, which will reside at one of two addresses for all eternity: with God sharing His perfect happiness or alone suffering for eternity in the Lake of Fire. Yes, alone; your only company will be the worm of memory which never dies and which will constantly remind you of the information you've received on this very site, decided was trash and summarily dismissed.
"For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23) "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten [uniquely born] Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name [person] of the only begotten [uniquely born] Son of God." (John 3:16-18) "Believe in the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved. " (Acts 16:31a) "I am the way, and the truth and the life; no man comes to the Father but through me." (John 14:6b) The choice is yours.
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyWhen some of the following have been demonstrated to actually exist:
[b]"Better yet, while your in the shower... "
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast." Ephesians 2:8-9
"For by grace you have been saved through..." empirical experience? Nope.
"For by grace you have been saved through..." rationa ...[text shortened]... ruth and the life; no man comes to the Father but through me." (John 14:6b) The choice is yours.[/b]
'Grace' (whatever that is)
An afterlife (let alone a choice of them)
A deity
A soul
A lake of fire
then your waffle may be worth heading. Until then we have no more reason to believe you then we do Dasa.
--- Penguin
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby"Better yet, while you're in the shower..."
[b]"Better yet, while your in the shower... "
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast." Ephesians 2:8-9
"For by grace you have been saved through..." empirical experience? Nope.
"For by grace you have been saved through..." rationa ...[text shortened]... ruth and the life; no man comes to the Father but through me." (John 14:6b) The choice is yours.[/b]
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby"For by grace you have been saved through..." the inane blather you spew on an internet forum? Nope.
[b]"Better yet, while your in the shower... "
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast." Ephesians 2:8-9
"For by grace you have been saved through..." empirical experience? Nope.
"For by grace you have been saved through..." rationa ...[text shortened]... ruth and the life; no man comes to the Father but through me." (John 14:6b) The choice is yours.[/b]
Originally posted by PenguinAn interesting response on a few levels.
When some of the following have been demonstrated to actually exist:
'Grace' (whatever that is)
An afterlife (let alone a choice of them)
A deity
A soul
A lake of fire
then your waffle may be worth heading. Until then we have no more reason to believe you then we do Dasa.
--- Penguin
Your rejection on the basis of denied existence is a bit problematic.
First, your challenge of the concept of grace.
How does one challenge what one knows to exist?
Grace (as a term) has been used in some fashion or another since the 12th century, but as a concept it has been around for time untold.
From etymology.com:
late 12c., "God's favor or help," from Old French grace "pardon, divine grace, mercy; favor, thanks; elegance, virtue" (12c.), from Latin gratia "favor, esteem, regard; pleasing quality, good will, gratitude" (source of Italian grazia, Spanish gracia), from gratus "pleasing, agreeable," from PIE root *gwere- "to favor" (cf. Sanskrit grnati "sings, praises, announces," Lithuanian giriu "to praise, celebrate," Avestan gar- "to praise" ).
So it seems a bit unlikely you've never heard of it.
Second, your challenge of an afterlife.
We know there is biological life in the womb, but we're not at all certain that mental acuity or even perception exists therein.
If anything can be known in the womb, we certainly wouldn't expect for the child to know with any certainty (or even in conjecture) of the life which exists outside of the womb, i.e., the world we inhabit.
What proof can there possibly be for the resident of the womb, other than sensory from outside?
And even if there were mental capacity, if a child could actually be taught of this outside-the-womb world, what proof would be enough to allow the child to be certain?
According to your unstated rules, only those things experienced firsthand are to be believed.
I have a very difficult time believing that you've never learned nor taken anything on faith from someone with better information than you on any given subject.
Originally posted by FreakyKBHThanks for the definition of 'Grace'. I had heard the term many times on here but it was never defined and was not clear from context. I had only really been aware of these 2 meanings:
An interesting response on a few levels.
Your rejection on the basis of denied existence is a bit problematic.
First, your challenge of the concept of grace.
How does one challenge what one knows to exist?
Grace (as a term) has been used in some fashion or another since the 12th century, but as a concept it has been around for time untold.
From et ...[text shortened]... nor taken anything on faith from someone with better information than you on any given subject.
a way of moving that is smooth and attractive and that is not stiff or awkward.
a controlled, polite, and pleasant way of behaving.
It was clear that this is not what was meant by the Christian use but I never bothered to look it up till now.
However, this purported help from a purported god has no discernible effect and so has not been shown to exist. Likewise the purported god itself.
And even if there were mental capacity, if a child could actually be taught of this outside-the-womb world, what proof would be enough to allow the child to be certain?
Well, from within the womb there is a discernible physical route to the outside world. You could always pass a physical object into the womb through that route. This could be done repeatedly, in both directions, providing a reproducible, objective communication channel.
There is no analogous route to this world from the purported afterlife and no reproducible communication channel has been established from there.
According to your unstated rules, only those things experienced firsthand are to be believed.
No, not really. Just objective evidence that could be reproduced by anyone, rather than only by those who already believe. Such evidence has not yet been produced for any of the following:
1 - A deity
2 - An afterlife
3 - An immortal soul (I suppose evidence for this might suffice as evidence for an afterlife)
4 - A lake of fire within the afterlife (obviously we need evidence of an afterlife first)
5 - 'Grace' although you have defined this, no evidence has been given for its existence. For a start, you would need evidence for a deity first.
--- Penguin.
Originally posted by SwissGambit"But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!" Matthew 6:23 (AKJV) SwissGambit, have you ever thought you saw something clearly (in a chess game or another person), only to discover later that you didn't really see it at all at the time because on an incipient blind spot?
"For by grace you have been saved through..." the inane blather you spew on an internet forum? Nope.
Originally posted by darvlay"Grampy Bobby staring at his own naked body in the mirror contemplating his own mortality." -darvlay
Scarier thought:
The probability of spending life in eternal damnation for forsaking the micromanaging god who refuses to reveal himself to those he supposedly loves most
or,
Grampy Bobby staring at his own naked body in the mirror contemplating his own mortality
?
Hey, darvlay, GB's regained thirty lbs. of the sixty lost during the sixteen month paralysis to 180 lbs. 6.0' fighting trim. True.
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyWhy?................................................................................................................................................... [2]...[9] OP
[b]"Better yet, while your in the shower... "
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast." Ephesians 2:8-9
"For by grace you have been saved through..." empirical experience? Nope.
"For by grace you have been saved through..." rationa ...[text shortened]... ruth and the life; no man comes to the Father but through me." (John 14:6b) The choice is yours.[/b]
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyIs it too early to nominate this as the biggest pile of laboratory-grade ASCII diarrhea to grace the forum in 2014?
[b]"Better yet, while your in the shower... "
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast." Ephesians 2:8-9
"For by grace you have been saved through..." empirical experience? Nope.
"For by grace you have been saved through..." rationa ...[text shortened]... ruth and the life; no man comes to the Father but through me." (John 14:6b) The choice is yours.[/b]
- Joined
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Originally posted by darvlayWTF???
I thought the thumbs down were an admission of cowardice, not a critique of the post...
I truly do not get that.
Does anyone around here think there is a great number of posters (or any) who
are afraid to give their opinions, and stand by them?
If someone posts something I think is bad/wrong/stupid ect and someone else
has already posted a salient take down to which I have nothing to add, would you
rather I (or anyone else) express my agreement with the take down and dislike/approval
whatever of the first post by cluttering up the thread with redundant posts or with a
simple thumbs up/down?
And how is doing the above cowardly???
You are deluded if you think I am afraid to stand by my opinions, and I don't see anyone
else holding back either.