Bhagavad gita

Originally posted by Dasa
When you can accept basic common sense truth I will discuss with you.

But while you play games and reject basic common sense truths then I will not.

I have already posted up information about the descending method of learning which is submissive to authority.

I have given examples of how we all submit to authority to learn everything we all know and th ...[text shortened]... al authority whimsically ( because you have a personal vendetta against Dasa) is not acceptable.

You mean how you misquoted Einstein? You still think after all that, that you are honest. You are arrogant, dishonest, disingenuous, and accuse others of the same when you can't even see yourself for what you really are.

Just the fact you think all religions false except yours tells the whole story right there.
Just like the missionaries I mentioned I saw in Thailand, you think your religion is so superior you can spout judgement on all mankind not into your so-called faith.
More like total brainwashing. You got into this late, that is apparent. Nothing more annoying than the recently converted. Even it it was 10 years ago.

Originally posted by JS357
Could you provide an issue or question about which those 100 people would approach an authority for the kind of guidance you are talking about? Then we can explore how the various people who have problems with your approach, would themselves deal with the issue or question.

I ask this because I believe we as humans do establish authoritative (trustworthy) s ...[text shortened]... eather will be at the place we go for a jazz concert. It is common sense to consult authorities.

Yes it is common sense to consult authorities and with regards to spiritual knowledge it is also and even more necessary to consult authority because spiritual concepts and precepts are often beyond human comprehension.

Being beyond human comprehensibility persons who embrace the acceding method of acquiring spiritual knowledge will struggle whilst those who are submissive to authority (descending method) will not struggle.

Not only will they "not struggle" but they will have accurate knowledge.

Persons who use the ascending method or empiricle method of acquiring spiritual knowledge will not have accurate knowledge and in most cases will have only speculation and fabrication as a result.

We see that this has happened already in the world and therefore the world has thousands of religions all saying different stuff.

Now......there is only one authority and it should be known that - the authority is the spiritual teachings that are eternal and not teachings created recently from current history from mundane persons.

The Vedas are the only eternal spiritual teachings in existence.

Also the Vedic teachings come to us in the most perfect language in existence (Sanskrit).

Sanskrit is a spiritual language. (perfect) relatively speaking.

And that is the necessary foundation for any authority to begin with.

Not having this foundation the pseudo authorities are left behind with their fabrications and speculations.

Originally posted by Dasa
FMF

I have had a change of mind.

Only to show that Vedic wisdom is a live and well - I will answer you 4 questions.

Great. Your change of mind is welcome.

Well there were 5 not 4, actually, and they're not really questions so much as scenarios from everyday life, and I wanted you to comment on how you would apply the material in the OP (and the many OPs just like it that you have pasted).

So, how would this particular section from Bhagavad Gita apply to everyday life, in everyday nitty gritty detail, for you and people you know for instance?

(1) conflict (or even harassment) in the workplace, from the employer and employee standpoints,

(2) managing a household with two working parents,

(3) dealing with a gay teenage child,

(4) loyalty and obedience to parents in adult life (and other family pressures),

(5) the old 'working to live, living to work' chestnut.

These are just 5 rather randomly chosen aspects of everyday life. You can modify them if you want or choose others. I'm just looking for the practical application, in your mind, of this theological tract you have started this thread with.

Originally posted by Dasa
Yes it is common sense to consult authorities and with regards to spiritual knowledge it is also and even more necessary to consult authority because spiritual concepts and precepts are often beyond human comprehension.

You claim that the spiritual concepts and precepts that you talk about on this forum are often beyond human comprehension. Are we to simply take it on good faith your implicit claim that you yourself comprehend them?

Originally posted by FMF
You claim that the spiritual concepts and precepts that you talk about on this forum are often beyond human comprehension. Are we to simply take it on good faith your implicit claim that you yourself comprehend them?

Spiritual instructions are divided into knowledge of the human condition and knowledge of the spiritual world and God.

The human condition and the methods to deal with it can be comprehended.

But the descriptions of the spiritual world and the cosmic creation and the qualities and nature of Godhead is often and partly incomprehensible - and the heart has to be purified for comprehension to develop.........thus the devotee must acquire spiritual insight which I have discussed before.

With spiritual insight everything is comprehended and no one has to take anyone's word for it.

If the person refuses to live by spiritual principles they will not develop the insight necessary to understand the higher things of spirituality and Godhead.

This has then circled back to the topic of being qualified.

Every person can become qualified if they accept the methods taught in Vedic spirituality and apply them to their every day life.

Without raising the consciousness the comprehension will have difficulty developing.

You are suggesting to me that you want to have that spiritual understanding - but without submitting to authority and following its direction.......this cannot be done but if it is attempted and the person is completely honest they may have a little success but it will be troublesome. ( very troublesome)

Originally posted by Dasa]......then I cannot give you your answers because my answers would fall on deaf ears and I would be wasting my time in sending you a long and detailed post.

I am a little late to this thread, but you really don't consider all of your other long, detailed posts a waste of time?

Originally posted by Dasa
With spiritual insight everything is comprehended and no one has to take anyone's word for it.

You are explicitly and incessantly asking us to take your word for it. As it happens, I do not take your word for it. You submit to the alleged "authority" of Vedic teachings. I do not. Why should I accept your demand that I am submissive to your alleged "spiritual insights"?

Originally posted by FMF
Great. Your change of mind is welcome.

Well there were 5 not 4, actually, and they're not really questions so much as scenarios from everyday life, and I wanted you to comment on how you would apply the material in the OP (and the many OPs just like it that you have pasted).

So, how would this particular section from Bhagavad Gita apply to everyday life, i ...[text shortened]... ical application, in your mind, of this theological tract you have started this thread with.

The answers are not the answer you would have anticipated but they are the perfect answer nevertheless.

They are perfect because I do not present anything that has not been sourced from Vedic authority.

Scenarios from any page out of the book of life in this modern world could culminate in a list of scenarios totalling a number with a trillion noughts on the end - so Vedic teachings do not care for each and every problem of this world.

But instead Vedic teachings would address the root of the problem and not treat the problem itself as important because the problem itself is only a symptom of a greater problem.

The greater problem is the lack of true understanding of what and who we really are and whilst ignorant people believe that the material body to be the true self and everything attached to the body as truly meaningful then this world will create and be responsible for the trillions of problems that already exist.

There is not one solution for each problem...........but there is one solution for every problem.

All the material problems of the world and I do mean every single problem in the entire world can be rectified by one spiritual solution - and that solution is to systematically educate every single person in the value of true spiritual knowledge found in the eternal Vedic teachings.

Of course this is impossible to carry out but every persons who embraces true spiritual knowledge will defiantly solve all and every problem they have and ever will have..

1. Conflict in the workplace (the micro) or conflict between nations (the macro)are the same thing and conflict of any type is produced from ignorance.

That ignorance is the lack of true knowledge of what we all are in truth - and what we all are in truth is spirit soul part and parcel of the Supreme Soul God.
If people in the work place or even nations of people were to know and understand this fact then no one would involve themselves in trivial ego conflicts arising out of ignorance of the lack of understanding of who and what they truly are.
They would be much more sober and mature and they would have good strong spiritual principled standards of conduct.
The harassment in the work place would never arise in the first place.

2. Why are two parents working in the first place?
They are both working because they have a ridiculous loan from the bank for their house of probably $300.0000 and often much more. and they are paying of two expensive cars maybe and they want big savings in the bank to go overseas on holidays etc..

In Vedic society being in debt is discouraged and if there is some debt - it is not for the ridiculous amounts that people find themselves in......at the most persons would go into debt for things deemed immediate emergency or if they need a roof over their head they may borrow a small limited amount that is serviceable and they don't have loan sharks just waiting to take away their house if they have some difficulty..

If one wage is not enough to keep body and soul together then the people are living beyond their means so your question about this is only valid in a society where materialism and consumerism are the rule of thumb.
In Vedic society simple living and high thinking are the rule of thumb and there is no situation that arises for both parents to work.
If by some unbeknown reason that both parents do have to work temporarily - then the children are given to kindly neighbours or relatives and there is absolutely no charge for this. ( they love to do it)
Vedic society is friendly society and everyone knows everyone. (child abuse does not exist)

Having said all of that if the wife wants to work and if she is creative and enjoys her work - then she can work as much as she wants as long as the children have been given to the minders.

Usually in Vedic society the wife is very happy to keep house and care for her kids - but if it should so happen that the wife is the skilled parent and wants to work -then the husband can volunteer to be the stay at home dad whilst the wife works.

3. Persons are born Gay - and gay is is a material consideration anyway because within that gay material disposition is a perfect transcendental spiritual soul (the true person)
When a person takes to the Vedic spiritual living they are instructed to control their mind and senses (this is why they give up animal slaughter) and part of this sense control is not to engage in illicit sex.
For the gay student who is living the spiritual life they would have to control their sex desire just as much as the hetro person (there would be no difference) because they would both have to curb their appetite for sex.
In the beginning it may be difficult but as they both advance in spiritual awareness they find it much easier to control their minds until it gets to the point where they have almost no desire for sex. (this is healthy) but another subject.

4.Vedic culture requires the children to always be respectful of their parents instructing them to care for their parents in old age.
As far as loyalty goes if the parents are accepting and encouraging spiritual values in the household then the children would of course have loyalty towards such good parents.......but if the parents where against spiritual living and of questionable character then the children are still requested to care for them in their aging years but being loyal to them may be troublesome..(what do you mean by being loyal?)
Vedic culture anyway always encourages humility and compassion in these difficult circumstances where the parents may bring animal killing and drunkardness into the home. (in Vedic culture this problem would be almost non existent)

5.Current modern atheistic materialism and consumerism makes us believe we live to work......because if you work very hard you will be able to be a good consumer.

Vedic culture instructs us to work to live - and because Vedic culture encourages simple living and high thinking then working very hard is not recommended - and in fact it is taught that we should work only to keep body and soul together in a healthy environment.

The Srimad Bhagavatam informs us that persons who work very hard for temporary material sense pleasure are like the dogs, hogs, camels and asses.

Dogs hogs camels and asses live by their senses only not caring about life or death or God, or spirituality and therefore humans who work very hard to only care for satisfying their tongue, belly, genitals, and senses are just like the animals........because actually human life is only meant to understand God (nothing less)

Originally posted by Dasa
The answers are not the answer you would have anticipated but they are the perfect answer nevertheless.

They are perfect because I do not present anything that has not been sourced from Vedic authority.

Scenarios from any page out of the book of life in this modern world could culminate in a list of scenarios totalling a number with a trillion noughts on ...[text shortened]... the animals........because actually human life is only meant to understand God (nothing less)

One of your beter posts-I have a few things I agree with and a few things that I would like clarification on,(and a 2 things I disagree with, but in the interests of positivity and "meeting each other halway"😉, lets just mention the things I need clarification for now,eh? 🙂

1.Vedic teachings DO care for each and every problem in this world.

I think you have said this because these teachings are so old and do not address,directly, contemporary problems (except through metohor,at best). Hence I would always advocate on seeking modern authors,(upto 100 years ago max), and even better, seek spiritual persons who understand vedic (and other) ideology/ideas/religon/(insert your own) in a sound consisten manner.

( I attended two meditation sessions with a bonafide Tibetan monk,( a gese la, in fact), and he did not dissapint. In fact he far surpassed my expectations ,
(hence a secind visit), and reaffirmed for me that I'm on the right track, even allowing me to butt in and answer a question that was thrown at him before he had a chance to answer himslef,(his english wasn't so good you see, and upon hearing my answer he merely lookes at the guy who asked the question and pointed to me, as if to say "What he said"😉

We had visulization for 15 minutes,meditation for 15 minutes and questions for 15mins ,(and tea and chat for 15min). (these times varied a little if the situation called for it. )

2.It is true that our material bodies are not our true identities,(nor our souls,ideas,bank accountc,etc.), however these are the humanoid vessels that we have been blessed with to usher ourselves into the new world/ to become enlightened. And we need to use them accordingly, prefferably seeking the middle way,9in most things), as buddha had suggested.
The human body and mind has all sorts of afflictions and problems which hinder spiritual progress, however to fight against (physical and emotional) natural desires and "material gains",(and other "drugs"😉, is also counterprouctive as giving up all vices in one go would only result in an equal and opposite reaction with a 99% chance of relapse. My approach (in a word) is: DILUTE. Dilute your passions and live life to the fullest. Then your soul will come to a peaceful rest within itself, knowing it has experienced at least some of "societal life" and therefore can engage the rest of society with his/her spiritual insights. (If you cant communicate with people on their level(or at least meet them halfway), then you cant win them over with anything. Trust must be earned first.

3.In respect to parenting whatever the best for the child should be the priority in the first years of life.

4. Borrowing and lending money shouldn't be an issure with spiritual persons. Any honest person will only NEED a few bucks ,normally, and always pay it back when they say they would.

5.Persons may well be born gay,I'm not entirely sure,(what about bisexual? Hmmmm)

6.As rehards to sexual activity, I dont see any problem with this other that your "life juice" is wasted.
Firstly , dont bat off, (no biggie if you cant), secondly when you make love , make sure that it is for the right reasons. Be truthful with your lover. You can learn spiritual lessons 10 times as quick with an honest lover around for a few months because they reflect /bring up your own shortcomings much quicker(than if you were to learn those lessons living by yourself).

7.Children will be "truly"respectful if there is a good example to be respected. Forced respect causes problems when the child grows up.
(I knew a guy who was one of those little kids you see running around at the age of 3 or four with hare face- paint and shaved head who was kinda forced to respect hare values. (I dont agree with this at all. The child should not have to look ridicoulous in public just because the parents are Krsna's).
Anyway, this guy is a direct result of what can happen to a Hare KRSNA kid in western society and I tell you he was THE most effed guy( cant use the "f" word but it is by far the best word for this), I had ever met. He still went to the farm. He had a newfound respect that was not forced. But he was no longer a devotee. Well, not by appearance (nor chanting),still, he is the MOST spiritual guy I have ever met. The irony being that he was so impure by your (or anyone elses) standards that anyone who didn't know him and just saw him walking on the street would've thought him to be the most uncouth man in town!!. Anyway, thats a long story soon to be turned into a moive😉 )

8.The animal refernces are unesseray and most times offensive. You can get these points across without resorting to comparing people with animals, holy book or not. It's just not on mate. We are imtelligent humans, and on a chess site, prolly above the average intelligent human, so this type of "teaching" should be stopped immediatly.

(gotta go again,sorry)

Originally posted by karoly aczel
One of your beter posts-I have a few things I agree with and a few things that I would like clarification on,(and a 2 things I disagree with, but in the interests of positivity and "meeting each other halway"😉, lets just mention the things I need clarification for now,eh? 🙂

1.Vedic teachings DO care for each and every problem in this world.

I t ...[text shortened]... of "teaching" should be stopped immediatly.

(gotta go again,sorry)

Just because Dasa can play chess should not be sufficent for you to put
him on a higher intellectual level than someone who does not play chess.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Just because Dasa can play chess should not be sufficent for you to put
him on a higher intellectual level than someone who does not play chess.

I am not putting anyone on any level here.

Only two levels to the tenets of my religon-the enlightened and the unenlightened.
Paradoxically I put everyone on here into both categories. Black beetle is the only one I'm not sure about.

Originally posted by Dasa
[...] 1. If people in the work place or even nations of people were to know and understand this fact then no one would involve themselves in trivial ego conflicts arising out of ignorance of the lack of understanding of who and what they truly are.[...]

Well, I wasn't really thinking of "trivial ego conflicts arising out of ignorance of the lack of understanding of who and what they truly are". That kind of conflict can be addressed through recruitment policies, training, team building activities and reassignments [or not as the case may be!]. I was thinking more of creative issues, investment issues, management system issues. Businesses need to be successful, and both employees and employers have to work towards that. What about conflict over the definition of - and route towards - success? Isn't a devotee of Vedic teachings perhaps going to be a source of conflict, rather than a healing/uniting presence, if he insists on calling his colleagues "dogs, hogs, camels and asses" for working hard, providing for their families, and striving for personal and commercial success?

Originally posted by RJHinds
Just because Dasa can play chess should not be sufficent for you to put
him on a higher intellectual level than someone who does not play chess.

The members of rhp seem more intelligent on average than the people aound me in real life. i'm not singling anyone out here
(just to clarify properly)




Also before I got on here I used to win about 80-90% of my otb games, bar one guy who I only got about 35% of the time.
Eversince I've been on here my win/loss ratio has been about45/55% (please no one check-it could be worse 🙁 )

Originally posted by Dasa
[...]4.Vedic culture requires the children to always be respectful of their parents instructing them to care for their parents in old age. [...] but if the parents where against spiritual living and of questionable character then the children are still requested to care for them in their aging years but being loyal to them may be troublesome..(what do you mean ...[text shortened]... lt circumstances where the parents may bring animal killing and drunkardness into the home.[...]

What about where parents do not recognize the "authority" of Vedic teachings - like they have rejected them or their children have converted, having grown up. Would those children have to refrain from calling their parents "dogs, hogs, camels and asses"? If yes, as you seem to suggest, why can't this "humility and compassion" be extended to other people?

Originally posted by Dasa
[...]5.Current modern atheistic materialism and consumerism makes us believe we live to work......because if you work very hard you will be able to be a good consumer. Vedic culture instructs us to work to live - and because Vedic culture encourages simple living and high thinking then working very hard is not recommended - and in fact it is taught that we should work only to keep body and soul together in a healthy environment.[...]

What about people who have work that is very interesting or intellectually fulfilling? Or work that brings benefit to other people? Vedic teaching says that "working very hard is not recommended"? This strikes a kind of false chord for me. Perhaps you can explain?