Originally posted by sonshipIf you want to go ahead and promote Islam and Islamic beliefs here on this forum, I will engage you. But I will warn you... I am not a Muslim, in much the same way ~ and for much the same reasons ~ as I am not a Christian.
But I bet you reserve most of your energies to eliminate the Bible from your heart.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
16 Nov 14
Originally posted by FMFIf this is your example of something new in Revelation that is not found elsewhere in the Bible - FAIL. Matthew 25:32-46 shows some clear parellels.
Can you peddle your 'torture in burning agony for eternity in the Lake of Fire' ideology without reference to the Book of Revelation?
Now you'll say I only care about hell fire. Right?
Since I reply, I only care about eternal punishment.
Try again.
No, on second thought, I know you cannot produce something completely new in the book of Revelation.
Originally posted by sonshipMaybe Matthew 25:32-46 is further evidence of tampering with Hebrew mythology then. Did the ancient Hebrew ~ or modern Jews, for that matter ~ believe in torture in burning agony for all eternity as a punishment for non-Jews?
If this is your example of something new in Revelation that is not found elsewhere in the Bible - FAIL. [b]Matthew 25:32-46 shows some clear parellels.[/b]
"The idea of a person suffering in agony forever does not sit easily with the notion of a loving God. You will be pleased to know, therefore, that the Jewish concept is very different." ~ Rabbi Jonathan Romain, Maidenhead Synagogue, UK.
When and how was the idea of a person suffering in agony forever added to the Bible and why does it not form part of Rabbi Jonathan Romain's Jewish beliefs?
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Originally posted by FMF
Surely "eternal punishment", as many Christians believe, refers to dying and being dead forever and having no afterlife ~ as a punishment?
Surely "eternal punishment", as many Christians believe, refers to dying and being dead forever and having no afterlife ~ as a punishment?
Let me see if I get this right.
Virgil Clemente does not exist. He was never born and never came into the world.
He is being punished.
He is being punished with non-existence?
This doesn't make sense.
Let's instead consider one Mr. jaywill sonship. He was born. He did exist in the world. But he could not, would not, believe in the Son of God and sought to take his own chances. He thought he was not too bad compared to this other guy over there. Though he was invited to receive Christ and eternal life he intelligently, opened eyed, flat out, deliberately rejected Christ as Lord and Savior.
So God pulls the plug of his existence and he is non-being, non-existent.
How will he feel the first, say, hour of his "punishment" ?
How will he feel the first week of his "punishment" ?
How will he feel about his "eternal punishment" ?
He won't because, like Virgil Clemente above, a non-existent person cannot be punished.
So let's object. Maybe the "punishment" is in the last few minutes he knows that he will never, ever, ever exist anymore. He will be no more. NO darkness. No void. No "nothing" - non-being. Perhaps "eternal punishment" means for those few moments before he passes out of existence the punishment of sorry is his and acute.
If so, that cannot be called "eternal punishment".
When I read again the accounts of Jesus agony of "passion" to drink the cup the Father had passed to Him for our salvation, it is hard for me to believe that His absoluteness of obedience was about saving men from the judgment of oblivion and non-existence.
19 Nov 14
Originally posted by sonshipYour notions come across as far-fetched and seem to have no recognisable moral underpinning.Surely "eternal punishment", as many Christians believe, refers to dying and being dead forever and having no afterlife ~ as a punishment?
Let me see if I get this right.
Virgil Clemente does not exist. He was never born and never came into the world.
He is being punished.
He is being punished with non-existence?
This does ...[text shortened]... absoluteness of obedience was about saving men from the judgment of oblivion and non-existence.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Originally posted by FMFThe "far-fetched" must exist. And it must righteously so.
Your notions come across as far-fetched and seem to have no recognisable moral underpinning.
How do you know something "far-fetched" does not exist?
A "black hole" is far fetched. You mean an object so dense that not even light can escape from its gravity ? That is far-fetched.
Can you be so sure that something far-fetched between God and the impenitent enemy of God could not exist ?
In passing, I am curious. Can you produce for me one athiest who thought higher of the concept of God once the teaching of eternal damnation was eliminated?
I have never seen it make a difference. The "air conditioning of hell" or the denial that the Bible teaches of eternal punishment, I have never seen to have the effect of making an atheist more open minded to the thought of God's existence.
Do you have a case ?
19 Nov 14
Originally posted by sonshipIt's you that has never made the case for such a depraved and demented notion of purported "justice".
The "far-fetched" must exist. And it must righteously so.
How do you know something "far-fetched" does not exist?
A "black hole" is far fetched. You mean an object so dense that not even [b]light can escape from its gravity ? That is far-fetched.
Can you be so sure that something far-fetched between God and the impenitent enemy of God c ...[text shortened]... f making an atheist more open minded to the thought of God's existence.
Do you have a case ?[/b]
19 Nov 14
Originally posted by sonshipIt was Christians I was referring to when I mentioned the belief in "elimination" as opposed to unending torture.
In passing, I am curious. Can you produce for me one athiest who thought higher of the concept of God once the teaching of eternal damnation was eliminated?
Originally posted by sonshipI am if course referring to your depraved notion of "justice". I don't believe the claims you make about the divinity if Jesus or the nature of God. I am simply questioning you about what I see as the grotesque things that are in your imagination and that you hold to be morally "perfect".
Jesus was depraved and demented too ?
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
19 Nov 14
Originally posted by FMFI don't know what you meant by elimination.
It was Christians I was referring to when I mentioned the belief in "elimination" as opposed to unending torture.
What I meant in using that word was not Annhilationism but I said
In passing, I am curious. Can you produce for me one athiest who thought higher of the concept of God once the teaching of eternal damnation was eliminated?