Cain and Abel

Originally posted by rwingett

I think the entire Christian notion of The Fall owes a large debt to this Greco-Roman version of the fall from this idyllic past. Versions of this myth persisted long into the Middle Ages, with many reformist groups trying to undo the corruption of the Roman Church and reconnect with the long lost Golden Age. Whether Rousseau was aware of it or not, it bears ...[text shortened]... hranach the Elder (1472-1553):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Goldenes-Zeitalter-1530-2.jpg[/b]

laughable at best. Jewish written history predates Greecian by 1500years.🙄

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
Actually god has been messing with it ever since the first words were committed to paper. Edits, translations, books ejected, books included - the thing's a palimpsest. Besides, god gave you a brain and the sense to work out the right thing to do in any given situation. If he wanted you to believe what some other guy told you, he would've made you a sucker.

No I think it's man that been messing with it....

Originally posted by duecer
laughable at best. Jewish written history predates Greecian by 1500years.🙄

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Genesis

In the 21st century most biblical scholars see Genesis and the other books as composite works derived from many sources, and primarily a product of the Exilic and Persian periods (6th and 5th centuries BC).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Age

The European myth of the Ages of Man first appears in the late sixth and early seventh century B.C.E. in the Greek poet Hesiod's Works and Days.

Originally posted by rwingett
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Genesis

In the 21st century most biblical scholars see Genesis and the other books as composite works derived from many sources, and primarily a product of the Exilic and Persian periods [b](6th and 5th centuries BC).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Age

The European myth of the Ages of Man first appears ...[text shortened]... e late sixth and early seventh century B.C.E. in the Greek poet Hesiod's Works and Days.[/b]

wikipedia? really? lol!

Originally posted by galveston75
No I think it's man that been messing with it....

Surely a god that can write this scripture through whomsoever he chooses would enter and similarly manipulate anyone who wanted to mess with his message? Why would he allow such important stuff to be corrupted by some unenlightened mortal? And if you're right, it was man messing with it, why then surely it's likely that it was man that wrote it in the first place?

Originally posted by duecer
wikipedia? really? lol!

Oh good argument! It's Wiki so it's wrong - references look pretty sound to me.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
Oh good argument! It's Wiki so it's wrong - references look pretty sound to me.

http://www.carm.org/when-was-bible-written-and-who-wrote-it


http://www.wisegeek.com/when-was-the-bible-written.htm


http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/01/08/bible-really-written/



I could go on busting you guys up all day long, but I need to get some work done.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
Surely a god that can write this scripture through whomsoever he chooses would enter and similarly manipulate anyone who wanted to mess with his message? Why would he allow such important stuff to be corrupted by some unenlightened mortal? And if you're right, it was man messing with it, why then surely it's likely that it was man that wrote it in the first place?

When man does rewrite the Bible for their own interest such as the promoting of the trinity for example which is not in the Bible, and doing such things as taking out the name "Jehovah" and just replacing it with "Lord" then that is a problem as it can cause confusion. But at this time in our history God has stepped back ( The Gentile Times ) to see what we do in following his son Jesus words and commands.
This is also a time when God and his son say that Satan is the ruler of the world. So because of this he has influanced man to influance such things as many translations of the Bible and not always in a good and pure way.
Also I question how you can question God? Do you know his plans and his ways?

Interesting. According the the New World Encyclopedia:

The Cain and Abel story is set in the Ancient Near East about 6,000 years ago. Many modern scholars believe the biblical account derived from earlier stories of conflict between the traditional nomadic way of life of the Israelites and the agricultural way of life which was developing in the Fertile Crescent.

The article goes on to list a possible Sumerian source for the tale:

In critical scholarship, the prevailing theory is that the story is composed of a number of layers, with the original layer deriving from the Sumerian tale of the wooing of Inanna. In the tale, seen as representing the ancient conflict between nomadic herders and settled agrarian farmers, Dumuzi, the god of shepherds, and Enkimdu, the god of farmers, are competing for the attention of Inanna, chief goddess.

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Cain

Originally posted by galveston75
When man does rewrite the Bible for their own interest such as the promoting of the trinity for example which is not in the Bible, and doing such things as taking out the name "Jehovah" and just replacing it with "Lord" then that is a problem as it can cause confusion. But at this time in our history God has stepped back ( The Gentile Times ) to see what ...[text shortened]... nd pure way.
Also I question how you can question God? Do you know his plans and his ways?

I know precisely as much about god and his ways as you do, which is to say nothing whatsoever.

Originally posted by duecer
http://www.carm.org/when-was-bible-written-and-who-wrote-it


http://www.wisegeek.com/when-was-the-bible-written.htm


http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/01/08/bible-really-written/



I could go on busting you guys up all day long, but I need to get some work done.

None of these sources are anywhere near so well referenced as the wiki article above. One of them is from a biblical website, another is a single scrap of evidence from a Jewish scholar. And I guess you're too busy to actually read the wiki article eh?

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
None of these sources are anywhere near so well referenced as the wiki article above. One of them is from a biblical website, another is a single scrap of evidence from a Jewish scholar. And I guess you're too busy to actually read the wiki article eh?

I provided three websites all of which disagree with wiki, which in academic circles would earn you a big fat zero if used as a refernce.


I win!😏

Originally posted by duecer
I provided three websites all of which disagree with wiki, which in academic circles would earn you a big fat zero if used as a refernce.


I win!😏

Please take your pointless squabble elsewhere. This thread is reserved for the multitudes of people who are going to start excitedly posting about my Cain and Abel analysis any minute now.

Originally posted by rwingett
Interesting. According the the New World Encyclopedia:

The Cain and Abel story is set in the Ancient Near East about 6,000 years ago. Many modern scholars believe the biblical account derived from earlier stories of conflict between the traditional nomadic way of life of the Israelites and the agricultural way of life which was developing in the F ...[text shortened]... he attention of Inanna, chief goddess.

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Cain

So two different ideas here. Which is correct or who says either is?

Originally posted by galveston75
So two different ideas here. Which is correct or who says either is?

They could both be correct. Or neither could be correct. I doubt there's any way to know for sure. But I have no interest in knowing if either is 'true', but am interested in exploring the possibilities that each present. Or the possibilities that my original post presents, I should say.