05 Jul 07
2 edits
Originally posted by NemesioBecause I think it is a very insightful commentary. I take it to be an observation that insanity is an emergent phenomenon whenever groups of people begin to cede their individuality to society, that whenever society grows to become an entity or an agent rather than merely a collection of individuals, inexplicable behavior emerges despite the sanity of the previously independent individuals. I take it to be a metaphor for all sorts of actual collectivist horrors that have been allowed to emerge as a result of people granting interests and powers to society itself, such as witch hunts, slavery, communism, and today's systematic toleration of child abuse. None of these things would ever take hold if individuals exercised their individual judgment and acknowledged their individual accountability, according them greater importance than any judgment about what is "good for society" or "the way things are done."
How could such a horrible commentary upon humankind be your favorite story?
Nemesio
06 Jul 07
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesNSR, brother.
Because I think it is a very insightful commentary. I take it to be an observation that insanity is an emergent phenomenon whenever groups of people begin to cede their individuality to society, that whenever society grows to become an entity or an agent rather than merely a collection of individuals, inexplicable behavior emerges despite the sanity ...[text shortened]... mportance than any judgment about what is "good for society" or "the way things are done."
06 Jul 07
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesI think you are trying to claim that a wide variety of phenomena are all caused by the same basic things. I totally disagree. And what is so bad about communism anyway? Or do you mean the actual implementation of it in some countries?
I take it to be a metaphor for all sorts of actual collectivist horrors that have been allowed to emerge as a result of people granting interests and powers to society itself, such as witch hunts, slavery, communism, and today's systematic toleration of child abuse. None of these things would ever take hold if individuals exercised their individual ...[text shortened]... mportance than any judgment about what is "good for society" or "the way things are done."
My experience to do with witch-hunts, is that there is a combination of a number factors.
1. The fear of the unknown. In Zambia, belief in witchcraft is commonplace (at a guess, over 90% of people believe it exists). People become quite irrational when they are afraid of an unknown enemy.
2. Jealousy and taking advantage of the situation. In Zambia, in the rural areas, if anyone does noticeably better than his neighbors it is just a matter of time before he is accused of witchcraft.
3. Mob action. I have experienced this a number of times and never personally felt the inclination to take part. But perfectly rational friends of mine for some reason would do extreme things when part of a mob. For example, when I was at university and the shout of "thief" went out, there was a pretty good chance that the thief would end up dead, and that at the hands of people who would not normally hurt a fly.
I don't think any of it has to do with anyones beliefs in what is "good for society" or "the way things are done."
06 Jul 07
1 edit
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesI take it to be an observation that insanity is an emergent phenomenon whenever groups of people begin to cede their individuality to society, that whenever society grows to become an entity or an agent rather than merely a collection of individuals, inexplicable behavior emerges despite the sanity of the previously independent individuals.
Because I think it is a very insightful commentary. I take it to be an observation that insanity is an emergent phenomenon whenever groups of people begin to cede their individuality to society, that whenever society grows to become an entity or an agent rather than merely a collection of individuals, inexplicable behavior emerges despite the sanity mportance than any judgment about what is "good for society" or "the way things are done."
Powerful stuff! Thank you for posting that story. Reminds me a bit of Kafka’s The Trial.
I think it does not just apply to the socio-political arena, but could, for example exhibit itself within a family. So, in a sense, I might say “cultural” rather than “social” (although “social” can be broadly enough defined, so that might be a quibble).
One of the problems is that such cultural/social insanity becomes defined as the norm—and hence “sane”. I lately liken the process of such cultural/social conditioning (which can begin pre-verbally) to hypnosis, with a whole complex of deeply-set, recursive, reinforcing post-hypnotic suggestions. That is why it is so difficult to break out, and why the breaking-out may take a long, long time as more and more of the reinforcing suggestions are identified. One can think that one has broken free, just to later realize that one has simply fallen into a different loop in the same complex. (“The price of freedom is eternal vigilance” is, for me, not just a political slogan.)
I call that complex the soap-opera (or the melodrama). That is why I think TV soaps (daytime and prime-time) are so popular: they accurately portray (with the heightened accuracy of caricature) the real soap-opera which is the cultural norm, and reinforce it, even as people laugh at the caricature.
If one begins to speak a language of sanity, most people are unlikely to even understand what he is saying—it might sound foreign before it sounds threatening (although likely both at the same time). Anyone who begins the journey toward sanity is likely experience great upheaval in their lives. (I didn’t begin that journey until I was 40 years old or so.)
I recently told my wife that I have personally known only two really sane people in my life—and that I still wasn’t sure about her! 😉 (And I wasn’t including myself: I’m still working on it.) I mean that: two people—although I have met others who had traveled pretty far down the path. I was fortunate enough that one of those persons was willing to invest considerable time to help me identify my own insane thinking; and so much of the time, I really couldn’t comprehend at first what he was saying. Most importantly, he gave me tools to continue the process—the eternal vigilance comes in because the hypnosis encourages a kind of forgetfulness, an easy default into the old patterns of thinking, or not-thinking.