21 Dec 09
Originally posted by josephwwell this raises a whole series of questions, the idea for example, that a part of our make-up transcends death, for if Lazarus transcended death, why did Christ bring him back from paradise to die again, for a second time. It makes no sense. Secondly if persons from the so called old testament, did not go to heaven, then clearly not all good people go to heaven, do they.
What are you driving at?
21 Dec 09
Originally posted by josephw"balling like a bunch of faithless sinners."
Of course it's alright to ask questions. But why stop there? I don't think God intended for His Word to be misunderstood. So when an answer comes, why not accept it in faith?
Let me see if I can give a reasonable answer to the best of my ability.
#1 At the time that Lazarus died people were not going to heaven. By that I mean, nowhere in the "old testa ...[text shortened]... s answer to His disciples, Jesus eventually told them plainly that Lazarus was dead.
Nice
21 Dec 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieOnly the faithful went to paradise.
well this raises a whole series of questions, the idea for example, that a part of our make-up transcends death, for if Lazarus transcended death, why did Christ bring him back from paradise to die again, for a second time. It makes no sense. Secondly if persons from the so called old testament, did not go to heaven, then clearly not all good people go to heaven, do they.
Why did Jesus bring Lazarus back to life?
John 11
4When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.
15And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless let us go unto him.
25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
27She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
40Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God.
41Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.
42And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.
45Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him.
As far as I can tell the answer is in these verses.
But you think dead means dead? Don't you? You may be right, but what difference does it make to the dead? If dead means complete unconscienceness, then as soon as one that was dead is resurrected, as far as they are conserned not a moment past.
21 Dec 09
Originally posted by SwissGambitYes. Big business this Christanity. Hollywood productions. Big shows. Thrills and chills. Emotional appeals. Nobody changes. Only the money.
All the answers are here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EweWSpNuWZA
======= THREAD CLOSED =======
I don't buy it. It's not real.
21 Dec 09
Can you believe that the opposition against Christ would be so strong? The opposers, after the raising of Lazarus, not only sought to kill Jesus but to re-put to death Lazarus:
"And the chief priests took counsel to kill Lazarus also. Because on account of him many of the Jews went away and believedd into Jesus." (John 11:10,11)
21 Dec 09
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillCan I believe that men wanted to kill each other for following the wrong religion? Yeah, happens all the time.
Can you believe that the opposition against Christ would be so strong? The opposers, after the raising of Lazarus, not only sought to kill Jesus but to re-put to death Lazarus:
[b]"And the chief priests took counsel to kill Lazarus also. Because on account of him many of the Jews went away and believedd into Jesus." (John 11:10,11)[/b]
21 Dec 09
Originally posted by SwissGambitthere's a 'great', Cecil B. DeMille portrayal of Samson by Victor Mature, who refused to wrestle the lion even though the lion was tame and its teeth had been pulled , with the famous line, 'Samson, Samson the Philistines are coming!'.
I like the part when Sampson talks like Sylvester Stallone. 😀
21 Dec 09
3 edits
Originally posted by SwissGambit===================================
Can I believe that men wanted to kill each other for following the wrong religion? Yeah, happens all the time.
Can I believe that men wanted to kill each other for following the wrong religion? Yeah, happens all the time.
======================================
This wasn't men wanting to "kill each other". There was not a mutual desire to kill. That's spin on your part.
Besides, it doesn't mean that you have to act in the same way. Do you refuse to study science because so many weapons have been devised scientifically to kill ?
Do you say "I want NOTHING to do with the study of science. For years science has invented instruments of death used for weapons against fellow human beings" ?
I don't say "I want nothing to do with Jesus because He was crucified by religious zealots." That's stupid.
Nor will I say "I want nothing to do with Jesus because religion has been a source of warfare and death." That's also stupid.
21 Dec 09
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillHowever, you seem to be saying that stronger-than-expected opposition to Jesus was an indication that his teachings and miracles were legitimate. That's making the same sort of error, but in the opposite direction.
[b]===================================
Can I believe that men wanted to kill each other for following the wrong religion? Yeah, happens all the time.
======================================
This wasn't men wanting to "kill each other". There was not a mutual desire to kill. That's spin on your part.
Besides, it doesn't mean that you sus because religion has been a source of warfare and death." That's also stupid.[/b]
22 Dec 09
1 edit
Originally posted by SwissGambitAfter reading this comment a few times trying to figure out exactly what you mean, the best I can ascertain is that you're suggesting the default human position has to be skeptical unbelief in Christ's deeds.
However, you seem to be saying that stronger-than-expected opposition to Jesus was an indication that his teachings and miracles were legitimate. That's making the same sort of error, but in the opposite direction.
The people who conspired to kill both Christ and Lazarus had some terrible sense of personal threat from Him. It bordered on a kind of madness. I think it was spiritually induced. I think they were driven to paranoia from a spiritual source.
By the time I get to chapter 11 the build up to this miracle not surprising. John has taken the time on the eight previous cases to show the authority of Christ over many negative things. The ninth case is His authority over physical death.
To me, by this time, Jesus is believable. I guess that is the jist of the matter. Some of us just are persuaded that a person like Jesus Christ is believable.
To regard this man as a fictional invention requires a greater leap of "faith" than to accept John's record.
"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which, if they were written one by one, I suppose that not even the world itself could contain the books written." (John 21:25)