07 May 19
@caesar-salad saidI thought this was going to be a reference to Genesis 38:9.
I'd like to avoid any semblance of implying that some RHP members are either dogs or swine or both 😉 , so let's leave pearls aside and stick with the seed-and-ground metaphor.
I wonder why some apparently Christian RHP members continue to promote their beliefs here, which amounts to casting their doctrinal seed on rocky ground where it is not at all likely to take root.
Isn't that wasteful? Aren't you worried that you might be punished for that?
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@caesar-salad
Ceasar-salad, the reason some of us keep speaking is that we know from our own experience that it took TIME.
And some of us may believe that with time some may consider the love of Christ is a good thing to open up to.
Then again some have hardened themselves more and more.
Do you mind if some of us speak to new participants who may want to hear something more, even if perhaps you don't?
@caesar-salad saidIdeas are never wasted. If they were, Jesus never would have been successful. Even though they tried to silence him, tried to curtail his movement, tried to poison it from within, what he started has flourished.
I'd like to avoid any semblance of implying that some RHP members are either dogs or swine or both 😉 , so let's leave pearls aside and stick with the seed-and-ground metaphor.
I wonder why some apparently Christian RHP members continue to promote their beliefs here, which amounts to casting their doctrinal seed on rocky ground where it is not at all likely to take root.
Isn't that wasteful? Aren't you worried that you might be punished for that?
Indeed, to this day, what Jesus taught is best spread by word of mouth, individual to individual, one person at a time. Even corporate broadcasting can be wasteful, but some of it does fall on good soil, especially in countries with few other alternative distribution methods and therefore its worth is secured.
07 May 19
@deepthought saidIndeed, but you have the wrong reference entirely.
I thought this was going to be a reference to Genesis 38:9.
"After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out; Joanna the wife of Chuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means. While a large crowd was gathering and people were coming to Jesus from town after town, he told this parable: "A farmer went out to sow his seed. As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path; it was trampled on, and the birds ate it up. Some fell on rocky ground, and when it came up, the plants withered because they had no moisture. Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up with it and choked the plants. Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up and yielded a crop, a hundred times more than was sown." When he said this, he called out, "Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear." His disciples asked him what this parable meant. He said, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, " 'though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.' "This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God. Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life's worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop." - Luke 8:1-15 NIV
07 May 19
@divegeester saidOf course it depends on whose "traditional American values" he is talking about.
I potent and IQ lowering combination.
Some of us have entirely different American values than do the hypocrites.
07 May 19
@caesar-salad saidWasteful yes. Punished for it no. It is like the JWs around here. I have told at least 8 pairs of door to door JWs that they are wasting their time with me. Each time I have a new arsenal of faults of the JW doctrine to tell them about. They keep coming back. I think they secretly hoping for a reverse conversion. They may be closet JW haters who do not have the strength to oppose their elders.
I'd like to avoid any semblance of implying that some RHP members are either dogs or swine or both 😉 , so let's leave pearls aside and stick with the seed-and-ground metaphor.
I wonder why some apparently Christian RHP members continue to promote their beliefs here, which amounts to casting their doctrinal seed on rocky ground where it is not at all likely to take root.
Isn't that wasteful? Aren't you worried that you might be punished for that?
@caesar-salad saidThat is an interesting concept that it would be wasteful. However, I think that we have seen people show a willingness to change. For instance, FMF had recently announced that he was contemplating becoming a Deist, saying that he was slowly changing in that direction.
I'd like to avoid any semblance of implying that some RHP members are either dogs or swine or both 😉 , so let's leave pearls aside and stick with the seed-and-ground metaphor.
I wonder why some apparently Christian RHP members continue to promote their beliefs here, which amounts to casting their doctrinal seed on rocky ground where it is not at all likely to take root.
Isn't that wasteful? Aren't you worried that you might be punished for that?
I think that we can plant these little seeds of change in people's hearts and over the years they may be able to change a bit.
But I have decreased the volume at which I post because I think that it is more fruitful to work on some other projects for the time being but... wherever there are people, there is something special happening, and I never feel deterred to share what I believe with others.
BTW, Caesar, I think you are a good, positive, new voice here, and my posting is for you as much as it is for anyone else.
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@philokalia saidThank you Philokalia, and someday soon I will have a look at more of your posts as you seem to be a compatible spirit, although of course consideration of the essential is to some degree more worthwhile than consideration of words. 😉
That is an interesting concept that it would be wasteful. However, I think that we have seen people show a willingness to change. For instance, FMF had recently announced that he was contemplating becoming a Deist, saying that he was slowly changing in that direction.
I think that we can plant these little seeds of change in people's hearts and over the y ...[text shortened]... ou are a good, positive, new voice here, and my posting is for you as much as it is for anyone else.
P.S. -- I'll admit to some snarky intent regarding "wasteful".
@caesar-salad
I think the warning about swine fits this forum very well.
Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.
@philokalia saidI think you have, yet again, got completely the wrong end of the stick.
For instance, FMF had recently announced that he was contemplating becoming a Deist, saying that he was slowly changing in that direction. I think that we can plant these little seeds of change in people's hearts and over the years they may be able to change a bit.
The possibility of taking a 'deist stance' Thread 180349 ~ as a rhetorical expression of agnosticism ~ is with regard to questions to which there are no answers [only speculation] and about issues that religionists make assertions while offering no credible proof. Self-identifying as a 'deist' would be a gesture of my rejection of manmade religions like Christianity
I can assure you that conversing with the Christians that happen to have coagulated and come and gone on this message board since 2005 ~ as interesting as it may be ~ is planting no "little seeds".
It's tilling the soil and turning old vegetation back into it so it can become fertile to grow something different.
I spent many years of my life looking at Christianity from the point of view of being one. Almost 30 years ~ probably longer than your adult life. Numerous RHP Christians, their debating points stretched thin, have often described this loss of faith after decades of belief as 'dismissing Christianity out of hand'.
It's really quite funny. There really ought to be a special logical fallacy named after that kind of grasping-at-straws - maybe there is.
The many years I have now spent talking to Christians here in this community ~ with the likes of you, sonship, KellyJay, Eladar, Romans1009, Fetchmyjunk/ dj2becker, RJHinds, SecondSon/josephw, Grampy Bobby and a whole slew of others ~ pretty much guarantees that Christianity is 100% in my past.
I may have lost my faith but I have never been an explicit atheist. "Deist" is just a label. It would emphasize succinctly that I have repudiated 'revealed' religions. If anything, to me, it would mean moving further away from your religion.
You may think ~ rather self-importantly ~ that people like you [in cases like mine] are "changing hearts" and "planting little seeds".
But it's the exact opposite.
@caesar-salad
There are multiple enemy here from both the group who claim to be Christian and those who claim the opposite.
09 May 19
@caesar-salad
As I said before I do not really cate what happens to them. I do not care what they think. Any problems they have are between God and them and I have no part in it.
@caesar-salad saidIt's all about "making disciples of all men" [Matt 28:19] and being a witness for Christ: Christians feel called upon to propagate their faith. The Koran too charges Muslims to propagate their religion.
I'd like to avoid any semblance of implying that some RHP members are either dogs or swine or both 😉 , so let's leave pearls aside and stick with the seed-and-ground metaphor.
I wonder why some apparently Christian RHP members continue to promote their beliefs here, which amounts to casting their doctrinal seed on rocky ground where it is not at all likely to take root.
Isn't that wasteful? Aren't you worried that you might be punished for that?
Atheists, non-theists, and various theists not of The Book, on the other hand, don't feel called upon to propagate anything, but may rise to the occasion if challenged (for example, by Christians). In Buddhism, it is said that when a student is ready, a master appears.