Christendoms legacy of killing, can they dismiss it?

Originally posted by twhitehead
Then why did you accuse yourself of it? Do you not understand my posts, or do you just enjoy digging yourself into a deeper and deeper hole?

i accused myself of having a legacy of violence, now you are bordering on the seriously absurd. if you have no evidence then i shall of necessity conclude that you cannot substantiate your assertion and your talking pants! we are no part of Christendoms legacy of violence because we dont go to war, you have nothing to the contrary, your argument is littered across the forum floor and ready to be swept up and put in the dust bin.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i accused myself of having a legacy of violence, now you are bordering on the seriously absurd.

No, I am merely pointing out what you have plainly stated in this thread. If you don't like it, you are welcome to admit your error and withdraw your claim, but denying having made a claim that is forever recorded in posts in this thread is what is absurd.

if you have no evidence then i shall of necessity conclude that you cannot substantiate your assertion and your talking pants!
I presented evidence by quoting your posts, but then you still don't seem to know what my assertion is, do you?

we are no part of Christendoms legacy of violence because we dont go to war,
Who is this 'we' you are talking about? I was talking about you in particular.
I too do not go to war. Can I too claim to have no part in the legacy of violence?
Can every non-soldier claim the same? You cannot get away with saying their government is at war because your government is at war.
Also the issue is not whether or not you go to war, but whether or not you have a legacy. How is this legacy passed down?

Originally posted by twhitehead

bumf, one hundred percent unadulterated bumf, you shall hence forth be known as whitey the unsubstantiated! get a job for a tabloid newspaper, they print gossip and other types of hearsay, this is the spirituality forum where one may demand a plausible answer not some vague assertions.

A legacy may be ascertained through examining recorded history based on eyewitness testimony and observers of events detailing a specific timeline, where is your evidence, nowhere, you have produced nothing, continue to produce nothing and cannot produce anything, i would be as well as asking my two rabbits to produce evidence.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
A legacy may be ascertained through examining recorded history based on eyewitness testimony and observers of events detailing a specific timeline, where is your evidence, nowhere, you have produced nothing, continue to produce nothing and cannot produce anything, i would be as well as asking my two rabbits to produce evidence.

I see you still haven't gone back and read my post to see what I actually said. You are busy trying to defend yourself against a claim I never made.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i accused myself of having a legacy of violence, now you are bordering on the seriously absurd.

Lets have a look at this statement you made in the very first post:
Two world wars started in the realm of so-called Christian nations. “Christian” political leaders resorted to arms in 1914 and 1939, and the clergy in all contending nations gave their blessing.
Do JWs have clergy?

From Wikipedia:
Clergy is the generic term used to describe the formal religious leadership within a given religion.

Did the JW leaders give their blessing to those wars?

Originally posted by twhitehead
Lets have a look at this statement you made in the very first post:
[b]Two world wars started in the realm of so-called Christian nations. “Christian” political leaders resorted to arms in 1914 and 1939, and the clergy in all contending nations gave their blessing.
Do JWs have clergy?

From Wikipedia:
Clergy is the generic term used to describ ...[text shortened]... leadership within a given religion.

Did the JW leaders give their blessing to those wars?[/b]

no we dont have clergy, there is no clergy laity distinction, we are all ordained ministers of the most high God.

Give blessing to war? My goodness man we were one of the first to be incarcerated in Nazi concentration camps because we refused to take up arms against our fellow human beings, some paying for the privilege with their own lives!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no we dont have clergy, there is no clergy laity distinction, we are all ordained ministers of the most high God.

Sure sounds like clergy to me.

How do you get out of this one then:
The guardians of God’s word led the martial chorus.
Are you "guardians of God's word" or do you give that title to others?

Originally posted by twhitehead
Sure sounds like clergy to me.

How do you get out of this one then:
[b]The guardians of God’s word led the martial chorus.
Are you "guardians of God's word" or do you give that title to others?[/b]

what sounds like a clergy to you? Ok Whitey had you come out and stated i dont know anything about this matter i could have tolerated it, but nooooooooooo. If everyone is considered an ordained minister, simply by virtue of baptism, then where is the clergy laity distinction? it cannot possibly exist, nor does it!

there are many that are considered 'guardians of gods word', the Masoretes, who took it and preserved it for thousands of years just by way of example. what this has to do with the question under consideration, i have no idea.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Have they lived up to their claim of being followers of the Prince of Peace?

Two world wars started in the realm of so-called Christian nations. “Christian” political leaders resorted to arms in 1914 and 1939, and the clergy in all contending nations gave their blessing.

The Columbia History of the World states regarding World War I: “Truth wa ...[text shortened]... search for peace.”

beating their swords into ploughshares for almost two thousand years.????

The alternative to nations fighting in World War II, as far as I know, would be the death of all European Jews and Europe becoming one huge Germany. What part of this scenario is better to you than nations fighting back to retain their sovereignty and help their neighbors against Hitler?

Even in the case of WWI, is it your contention that if countries are not to fight back if they are attacked? Are they to do nothing unless it is their own country being attacked? Isn't that the opposite of the Christian ideal of helping the neighbor who is in need?

Originally posted by pawnhandler
The alternative to nations fighting in World War II, as far as I know, would be the death of all European Jews and Europe becoming one huge Germany. What part of this scenario is better to you than nations fighting back to retain their sovereignty and help their neighbors against Hitler?

Even in the case of WWI, is it your contention that if countrie ...[text shortened]... tacked? Isn't that the opposite of the Christian ideal of helping the neighbor who is in need?

yes and i suppose killing hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians with two atomic bombs was also justified???? Perhaps it was the Christian thing to do???? What part of sending millions of persons, in the prime of life to a futile and premature death, in the name of petty nationalism dont you understand? What part of horrendous bombing campaigns on innocent civilians as was perpetrated upon cities like Dresden fits in with your idealistic jingoism of 'the Christian thing to do? Perhaps when the women in Germany were being raped by the Russians they were thinking, 'its the Christian thing to do'. Nationalism and sovereignty, petty ideals that have been utilised to foment hatred and division!

The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est pro patria mori

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
what sounds like a clergy to you?

"Ordained minister" sounds like clergy to me, but I guess thats just because I am used to them being equivalent.

there are many that are considered 'guardians of gods word', the Masoretes, who took it and preserved it for thousands of years just by way of example. what this has to do with the question under consideration, i have no idea.
According to your post, "the guardians of Gods word", led the martial chorus.
If we can't identify who is meant by the phrase, then that part of your post is meaningless gibberish.

If, as I suspect from the context, it is referring to only a subset of "the guardians of Gods word", then that would make sense, and I would not dispute it. But then you cannot use it as ammo against the whole of "Christiandom".

My overall point is that if you exclude yourself as a target of your accusations, then you need to explain exactly who is the target as your posts have been rather vague on the matter. As far as I can tell so far, those holding "Christiandoms legacy of killing" could be a tiny group of people, or half the world. How can we even begin to discuss whether they can dismiss that legacy when we are so unclear as to who they are in the first place?

Originally posted by twhitehead
"Ordained minister" sounds like clergy to me, but I guess thats just because I am used to them being equivalent.

[b]there are many that are considered 'guardians of gods word', the Masoretes, who took it and preserved it for thousands of years just by way of example. what this has to do with the question under consideration, i have no idea.
Accor ...[text shortened]... n dismiss that legacy when we are so unclear as to who they are in the first place?[/b]

vague on the matter????, are you for real???? did i not produce a list of denominations???? was it not specific enough???, what would you have that i track and account for every single person within those denominations.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
my point is, that what should be a force for resisting warfare, is nought but a extension of it, and has proven totally false to its own power. Its a semblance, a form of Godly devotion, a façade a sham!

yes i am a Christian, and am proud to state that i follow the teaching of Christ, which are not synonymous with the actions of Christendom.

I for one am glad that the Christian World didn't sit on their Blessed ASSurance and their plowshares, and instead handed Hitler and company their collective heads at Normandy.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
vague on the matter????, are you for real???? did i not produce a list of denominations???? was it not specific enough???, what would you have that i track and account for every single person within those denominations.

Sorry, I must have missed the list. Which page is it on?
So how do you justify labeling a list of denominations as 'Christiandom', when you gave a very different definition earlier in the thread? I also recall you implying that certain governments were part of Christiandom, yet surely they are not members of denominations?
I also don't follow how this 'legacy' is passed down. Is it passed down within organisations that were present at the time of the wars and supported the wars? Does this mean that any denomination that started since 1945 is legacy free?
Why is it only passed down through Christian denominations? Could it not also be passed down through businesses or governments or other organizations? For example if the company you work for existed in 1940 and supported Britain's war, do you have a legacy of killing because you work for that company?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes this is exactly what i am saying, infact if Christ was truly the head, why were his representatives, greedy, corrupt, licentious, willingly sending young men to their deaths in millions? guilty of genocide? its a façade, the whole thing is rotten from its core outwards. See if your name is on the list.


Roman Catholic Church
Eastern Orthod ...[text shortened]...
Congregational
Calvinism
Presbyterian
Reformed Churches

I apologise if i missed anyone 😉

hmmm.yeah..I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you on this list....