Christian morals

Originally posted by @sonship
No. Just asking if you believe that historians' theory.

My experience is that some people like to remain non-committal either way.
When it comes to Christ, aloofness and apathy is the safest reaction of some folks.

Ie. "Everything concerning Jesus, is of no significance to me."

Yes, I believe that Muslims believe Jesus was not crucified by the Romans.

I'm an atheist, how much more non-committal do you require me to be? My atheism is not governed by aloofness or apathy. My atheism is governed by disbelief in the thing you believe in.

And please clarify 'safest reaction.' Do you think, as a non-believer, I see any safety risk in voicing my disbelief (of something I disbelieve in). Am I also to fear a safety risk in rejecting the existence of Santa? (Serious question).

Originally posted by @eladar
No such thing as generically christian morals.

People who claim the title christian can have totally different sets of beliefs about right and wrong.

Finally a post of yours I agree with.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
You dodged quite a few on this thread:

https://www.chessatwork.com/forum/spirituality/how-does-the-shifting-of-moral-principles-affect-the-christian-church-today.174681

Please feel free to start a thread and copy paste every question you say I have “dodged” and I will answer them all.

The only ones I will not answer are ones which you will not unequivocally answer yourself.

I’ve been quite clear on this. Several times.

Particularly the book of Colossians emphasizes that all the morality men need is in abiding in Christ Himself.

In Christ are hidden ALL the riches of wisdom and knowledge.

"In whom [Christ] all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are hidden." (Col. 2:3)

In the church of Christ, Christ supersedes with the wisdom in Him, all the cultures of nationalities and ethnic backrounds. Christ Himself will show us how to live.

" ... put on the new man, ... where there cannot be Greek and Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, barbarian, Scythian, slave, free man, but Christ is all and in all." (Col. 3:10b,11)

See? Christ filling every member of the church is the guiding morality. Paul says we are MADE FULL in Christ.

"And you have been made full in Him, who is the Head of all rule and authority." (Col. 2:10)

We are use to living by various cultural norms of behavior. Gradually, by spiritual growth, in the living church Christ as the HEAD causes God to be dispensed and growing in all the members of the mystical Body of Christ.

" ... holding the Head, out from whom all the Body, being richly supplied and knit together by means of the joints and sinews, GROWS ... with the growth of God." (Col. 2:19)

This is a living "organism" where the blood is the divine life of Christ circulating an nourishing all the constituents of this "organism" His Body. And He is causing God to grow more and more in this organism.

Originally posted by @sonship...
In Christ are hidden ALL the riches of wisdom and knowledge....

https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/08/03/what-would-krishna-do-or-shiva-or-vishnu/

If you've seen one wishing well.

Originally posted by @apathist
https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/08/03/what-would-krishna-do-or-shiva-or-vishnu/

If you've seen one wishing well.

I don't ask "What would Jesus do?"
I do seek to know "What is Jesus DOING" in various personal situations.

The law of Moses is a moral code.
It is other things. But it is a moral code.

My discussion here has been about "Christian morals".

Well, isn't then the moral code of the law of Moses part of my Christian morals?
Well, the function of the law of Moses, according to Paul, was chiefly to expose the need for a Savior.

I would have to now go into an in depth talk about what it means for the Christians to be under grace rather than under the law (of Moses).

The "Christian morals" is to live by the grace of Christ. That is having Christ live in you as you enjoy Him being whatever you need.

I have mentioned this comparison before. Look at these two passages from the Apostle Paul.

1.) Not I who live, but Christ lives in me.

2.) Not I who live, but the grace of God which is with me.

See?

" ... it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me ..." (See Gal. 2:20)

" ... I labored more abundantly than all of them, yet not I but the grace of God which is with me." (See 1 Cor. 15:10)

See? Christ lives in me = the grace of God which is with me.
C'mon guys, no arguing today. This is good stuff.
No?

Originally posted by @sonship
I don't ask "What would Jesus do?"
I do seek to know "What is Jesus DOING" in various personal situations.

This is just the kind of Christian-speak I used hear every week in church. Essentially meaningless religious waffle designed to evoke a sense of spiritual deepness from those naive enough to listen.

Sorry, but that’s all it does for me.

Originally posted by @divegeester
This is just the kind of Christian-speak I used hear every week in church. Essentially meaningless religious waffle designed to evoke a sense of spiritual deepness from those naive enough to listen.

Sorry, but that’s all it does for me.

No its not. The problem is on your side.
It is very practical analysis of what it means to live the Christian life.

Now, you may be uninterested because you have more trust in self-improvement or law-keeping out of your strength as a natural man. If that is the case you probably have not fallen on your face enough times in failure to grasp that you need another life.

You have enough failures and you'll appreciate that you need Christ to be everything that you are definitely NOT. You need the grace of God - Christ living in you and for you.

Not waffle, but the New Testament salvation.

Originally posted by @sonship
It is very practical analysis of what it means to live the Christian life.

I can scarcely remember you ever talking about the practical side of being a Christian. You run a mile from it and start curling off logical fallacies and red herrings left right and centre at those who ask you about it and who aren't enthralled by your dogma-regurgitation monologue mode. Take your bizarre intellectual behaviour on this thread, for example.

Whenever there are threads where you could talk about Christian action, Christian works, Christian real life etc. etc. you are conspicuously absent or you roll up and wax monologularily about what you think about yourself and what you think about various beings - angels, demons, deities - and your own immortality.

In all my years both as a Christian and as a non-Christian, I have not met many ideologues who have offered as LITTLE practical analysis of what it means to live the Christian life as you do.

Originally posted by @sonship
Not waffle, but the New Testament salvation.

And there you go elevating and conflating your little religious soundbite to being the “New Testament salvation”. Can you see that you did that in your last post?

Plus wrapping in some nice barbs about using my “natural man” and my “failures” and being unsaved even!! “Failing to grasp that I need another life”...

It’s funny how you set yourself up here to be this sort of anointed minister and yet in reality you are just another dogmatic America Christian, entrenched in their own ideology and opinions, who lashes out with venom when his words are challenged.

Originally posted by @divegeester

And there you go elevating and conflating your little religious soundbite to being the “New Testament salvation”.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think that many and maybe most Christians consider a verse like Galatians 2:20 to be a crucial aspect of Christian living. Its not a soundbite. .

Also it is saying the same thing as most of the 15th chapter of John is teaching - He is the true vine and the believers are to ABIDE in Him. Without abiding in Him they can do ...HOW MUCH ? Nothing.

"I am the vine; you are the branches ... apart from Me you can do nothing." (15:5) [/b

Now this may be a neglected truth in mainstream Christianity.
But it is nonetheless foundational and not a "soundbite" of mine.

[b] Can you see that you did that in your last post?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, let me review that last post.

No its not. The problem is on your side.
It is very practical analysis of what it means to live the Christian life.

This is my reply to your attempting to trivialize the need to experience the grace of God.

Now, you may be uninterested because you have more trust in self-improvement or law-keeping out of your strength as a natural man.

If a man trivializes the need for a Christian to experience the grace of God in having Christ live in him, he must have more trust in himself.
Paul was a very strong willed and capable religious person. And Paul said that he had no more any confidence in his zealous flesh. He learned that he could do nothing apart from learning to abide in Christ who is now Spirit.

"For we are the circumcision, the ones who serve by the Spirit of God and boast in Christ Jesus AND HAVE NO CONFIDENCE in the flesh." (Phil. 3:2)

I don't think Paul became this way overnight. I think he LEARNED from experience over the course of time, the way to go on was to utterly live in the realm of the Holy Spirit where Christ was GRACE to him for everything.

"Soundbite" ??
My "soundbite"?

Well it is a proclamation that needs to be sounded then.

If that is the case you probably have not fallen on your face enough times in failure to grasp that you need another life.

Its true.

You have enough failures and you'll appreciate that you need Christ to be everything that you are definitely NOT. You need the grace of God - Christ living in you and for you.

That's true.
We're still in the process of learning this on even deeper levels.

You see when Paul said that he was crucified with Christ and buried with Christ in Romans 6 he is saying that he sees that the WHOLE THING of the old man is USELESS to God's economy.

Coming to Jesus Christ is the beginning of getting a glimmer that you flunked. You flunked. You may still have confidence that you can do this and that for God. God knows that we flunked.

Look, before we were born God knew - " I can't use ANY of it. It is ALL ruined. I can only use My Son Jesus. The WHOLE THING of your old man has to be put away. None of it useful to My Kingdom."

So don't get mad. This puts us all on the same level.
We all funked. We all need ANOTHER life.

This living by another life is living by the grace of God in Christ.
Look. Look at this.

" ... much more the grace of God and the free gift in grace of the one man Jesus Christ have abounded to the many. "(Rom.5:15b)

" ... much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ." (v.17b)

Through this grace we can "reign in life".
Through this grace which is Christ living in us, we can receive "the gift of righteousness".

This is a "bite" that needs to be sounded.


You:

Plus wrapping in some nice barbs about using my “natural man” and my “failures” and being unsaved even!! “Failing to grasp that I need another life”...

It’s funny how you set yourself up here to be this sort of anointed minister and yet in reality you are just another dogmatic America Christian, entrenched in their own ideology and opinions, who lashes out with venom when his words are challenged.

Hmmm.
Well, I'll work on delivery.

But the grace of God and Christ living in the Christian is not just my soundbite.

You know that LAST word in any book is usually a very important concluding word. No?

What is the last thing said in the Bible, the very last thing to sum up the 66 books?

" The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with all the saints. Amen." (Revelation 22:21)

Imagine that. The climax and concluding word is about "the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ" being with the believers in Christ.

Divegeesters says I blow up the matter to be my pet little soundbite.
The whole revelation of the Bible ends with a reminder - Christ's grace is with you believers.

Originally posted by @fmf

I can scarcely remember you ever talking about the practical side of being a Christian.

No, no. This is you saying ... "Practically Jesus is dead."
This is you saying ... "Since God does not exist, we have to practically proceed from there."

I'm a Christian - God is - Christ rose - Christ is available = reality.

You run a mile from it and start curling off logical fallacies and red herrings left right and centre at those who ask you about it and who aren't enthralled by your dogma-regurgitation monologue mode.

I don't expect everyone to be "enthralled" by the revelation of the God to man.
But I stand by it and proclaim it.

Ad nauseum to some like yourself.
But I do not apologize for the truth of the revelation.

Notice that I don't go out of my way to pester you more with it.
Its clear - Y'ain't interested. So be it. But no backing down from me ON it.

Take your bizarre intellectual behaviour on this thread, for example.

I don't want to talk about ME.
I don't want to talk about YOU.
I want to talk about Jesus Christ, the One who said "I am the ... the truth".

Y'aint interested anymore!
Cool.
I'll talk to some here who might still be interetested.

"Look at yourself. Look at yourself. Look, look, look at yourself sonship" is not as effective as you dream it will be.

i want to focus of Christ, Who He is and What He has done.

Whenever there are threads where you could talk about Christian action, Christian works, Christian real life etc. etc. you are conspicuously absent or you roll up and wax monologularily about what you think about yourself and what you think about various beings - angels, demons, deities - and your own immortality.

Really?

In all my years both as a Christian and as a non-Christian, I have not met many ideologues who have offered as LITTLE practical analysis of what it means to live the Christian life as you do.

Right! Like I expect a card carrying ATHEIST to pat me on the back - "Hey, thanks for good advice on how to live unto God through Jesus Christ."

First you have to RECEIVE Christ.
Then you have to learn to LIVE through and by this One.
That is NEW. That is a NEW WAY to live.
It takes time.

You can turn off now FMF. For others reading, consider this simple but profound command of Jesus in John 15.

" Abide in Me and I in you." (John 15:4a)

That is a profound kind of MUTUAL command -
Abide in Me ... and [allow Me] to therefore ABIDE in YOU [paraphrase]

It means you linger, abide, remain in the sphere of Me who am living and available.
And as a result I the Perfect Man will abide in you - live out through you - be in your living.

"Abide in Me and I IN YOU"

Very practical.
HOW we can abide in Him that He may abide in us, I could write more on in coming posts.

This is on "Christian Morals" - ie. abiding in the living Person of Jesus so that He may become our very ethics and morality spontaneously expressed.

A second look at this comment.

Whenever there are threads where you could talk about Christian action, Christian works, Christian real life etc. etc. you are conspicuously absent or you roll up and wax monologularily about what you think about yourself and what you think about various beings - angels, demons, deities - and your own immortality.

I like to emphasize not WHAT a man can do but the SOURCE of his doing.

The stuff about me going on about angels, deities, demons and my own immortality is just exaggeration.

My thread participations are again and again full of the word "Christ" because, I try to focus on Christ. That may lead to some discussion of other things such as spiritual warfare. FMF's caricature, that I emphasize these is exaggeration.

Go find the last 20 threads started by me sonship and check it for yourself.