24 Sep 06
1 edit
Originally posted by rwingetta truly omnipotent god has the ability to make a heaven which is a wonderful place - in which case genocide becomes acceptable.
This has grown rather tiresome. Epecially since you claim to still be 'laying the groundwork.' So let's simplify things, shall we? The following is my answer to this post and every other post you may make in this thread. If you make another post I will copy and paste the answer below in response to it. Or we could just save ourselves the trouble and imagine kes no difference to me. I'll leave it up to you to choose which characteristic to discard.
face it, religions can face any logical assault you make, and will continue on their own bizarre course.
24 Sep 06
Originally posted by flexmoreEven an omnipotent god cannot make a square circle. Likewise, an omnipotent god cannot repackage something as heinous as genocide as being a morally perfect act. If he can make a wonderful heaven, then he could do so without using genocide as his instrument.
a truly omnipotent god has the ability to make a heaven which is a wonderful place - in which case genocide becomes acceptable.
face it, religions can face any logical assault you make, and will continue on their own bizarre course.
24 Sep 06
Originally posted by FreakyKBHThere comes a time in these arguments where it essentially degenerates into a never ending cycle of 'yes it is / no it isn't' repititions. We have surpassed that point. All you have demonstrated is that your capacity for stubbornness exceeds mine.
Oh, goody. Now we know where you stand on the issue. Further, we know that your view is inconsistent within itself, and regardless of that reality, you will simply stamp your feet and threaten to hold your breath.
Nice talking with you.
I wish I could say it was nice talking to you, but I really can't.
24 Sep 06
1 edit
Originally posted by rwingettThere are differences between man and God and actions that they do.
Even an omnipotent god cannot make a square circle. Likewise, an omnipotent god cannot repackage something as heinous as genocide as being a morally perfect act. If he can make a wonderful heaven, then he could do so without using genocide as his instrument.
For example everyone dies, death is going to occur and I assume you
accept that as a natural part of life correct? Death and life are part of
the universe as we see it, and for a man to take a life for reasons of
greed for power, money, pleasure, or something along those lines we
both can agree is wrong and I would use the word evil even if you do
not like that term. Are we in agreement so far?
Kelly
24 Sep 06
Originally posted by KellyJayI do not think god can have a radically different moral standard than mankind, or a standard that is unknowable to mankind. Either god's actions can be judged morally perfect by standards knowable to mankind, or mankind has absolutely no basis for claiming that god is morally perfect. And it is simply not possible to reconcile genocide with moral perfection. Either the christian god is a knowable but amoral god, or he is completely unknowable to mankind.
There are differences between man and God and actions that they do.
For example everyone dies, death is going to occur and I assume you
accept that as a natural part of life correct? Death and life are part of
the universe as we see it, and for a man to take a life for reasons of
greed for power, money, pleasure, or something along those lines we
both ...[text shortened]... I would use the word evil even if you do
not like that term. Are we in agreement so far?
Kelly
24 Sep 06
Originally posted by rwingettYou didn't answer my questions, I understand your position you stated
I do not think god can have a radically different moral standard than mankind, or a standard that is unknowable to mankind. Either god's actions can be judged morally perfect by standards knowable to mankind, or mankind has absolutely no basis for claiming that god is morally perfect. And it is simply not possible to reconcile genocide with moral perfection ...[text shortened]... ther the christian god is a knowable but amoral god, or he is completely unknowable to mankind.
it before. So do you think when everyone dies that is a amoral event,
or is something evil going on at every death? This is important.
Kelly
24 Sep 06
Originally posted by KellyJayDeath, in and of itself, is an amoral occurance. It happens to everyone eventually. Heart attacks and the like have no moral character to them in a naturalistic world. But if there is a god, then that might not necessarily be the case. Killing an individual is always wrong, except in cases of self-defense and other special circumstances. Genocide is always wrong no matter what the circumstances.
You didn't answer my questions, I understand your position you stated
it before. So do you think when everyone dies that is a amoral event,
or is something evil going on at every death? This is important.
Kelly
24 Sep 06
Originally posted by rwingettSo if God is real death may not be amoral, but if God is not real it
Death, in and of itself, is an amoral occurance. It happens to everyone eventually. Heart attacks and the like have no moral character to them in a naturalistic world. But if there is a god, then that might not necessarily be the case. Killing an individual is always wrong, except in cases of self-defense and other special circumstances. Genocide is always wrong no matter what the circumstances.
is amoral?
Okay, so God simply isn't going to win no matter what here with you
I take it. 🙂
My point is with God as scripture teachs there is a time for all of us to
die, and after that the judgment.
Hebrews 9:27-28
And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.
Since God both gives and takes away all things from us, and since all
things come from God even our breath, His taking it away is simply the
way it is as when He gives. That is not the case with man, when a man
takes it upon himself to murder there is nothing but injustice taking
place, be it Genocide or the murder of just one person. With God all
life comes from him and God sets that all will die at some time having
God decree a group of people die is no different than when one dies.
Now that is not the same thing as killing in God's name, I'm quite sure
that there has been more of that done than God saying do it.
Kelly
26 Sep 06
Originally posted by RistarHere is my problem with all these killing lists: Suppose god exists and did all that was reported in the bible. Ok, now in the 21st century surely mankind is responsible for far more deeds of defiance and such that should make god extremely angry. Now what is the sense of such a god waiting untill there is 6, 7, 8 billion people on earth if it plans to off everyone who is a 'sinner' or whatever it is that annoys god? In the infant case, there would be literally millions of infants who could not have sinned, being say, one month old. The problem here is now there are thousands of times more such infants than in ancient days. So now god would condemn thousands of times more people, which as you pointed out, does not give god pleasure. So why did god not punish us before the present bloated population increase? Its one thing, in terms of absolute numbers, to talk about destroying all the population of the planet in the flood, for instance, when that population would have been at most, say, one million or so. Now thousands of times, quite literally, the number of people live on the same planet. I say that points more to the non-existance of such a god than one so insane as to destroy people it supposedly loves.
Sorry, my friend. My edits seemed not to have outpaced your reading speed. Please refer to the newly added passage on infants. Once again my apologies.
Also, the Bible speaks to God's motives for the Flood and that Noah found favor in His eyes. That is why he was spared. Please refer to Genesis for more info.
As for why God placed the rainbow as a ...[text shortened]... ions if those questions are posed in the spirit of truth-finding.
Warm regards,
R
The further you dig into such subjects the more these suppositions hang out further on a very thin branch. It has to break down at some point.
26 Sep 06
Originally posted by rwingettOnly if he has to follow the rules of logic. I've tried the whole "can Gob make a rock so heavy he can't lift it?" and been told that it's an invalid question because it assumes that Gob follows the rules of logic. And, let's face it r, Christian humans have problems following logic - how is their Gob supposed to stand a chance?
Even an omnipotent god cannot make a square circle. Likewise, an omnipotent god cannot repackage something as heinous as genocide as being a morally perfect act. If he can make a wonderful heaven, then he could do so without using genocide as his instrument.
26 Sep 06
Originally posted by sonhouseHe probably doesn't want to kill all those people because Hell is already having problems with the back log. The governance of Hell is facing stiff criticism from the population about the constant influx of migrants, sponging off the government of Hell - getting free soul torturing - without really contributing any real torture skills to the workforce. Let's face it, the best torturers are those incredibly dull christians, like Nosrac, and they supposedly go to heaven.
Here is my problem with all these killing lists: Suppose god exists and did all that was reported in the bible. Ok, now in the 21st century surely mankind is responsible for far more deeds of defiance and such that should make god extremely angry. Now what is the sense of such a god waiting untill there is 6, 7, 8 billion people on earth if it plans to off ...[text shortened]... these suppositions hang out further on a very thin branch. It has to break down at some point.