19 Sep 08
2 edits
Originally posted by WulebgrTell me what were my preconceptions when I looked? You seem to know, so tell me!
Maybe she doesn't want to be found by someone bringing your preconceptions.
What was I thinking then? Read my past mind for me!
This is the exact kind of arrogance that annoys me - you think you somehow know what I was thinking.
In any case, I thought god wanted to be found by everyone? Even if I did have these supposed preconceptions that you claim, wouldn't god jump at the chance at proving those wrong in someone who was searching for him?
19 Sep 08
Originally posted by PsychoPawn"It's entirely possible that god exists, but is completely different than anything anyone has imagined."
The reason you don't see it that way is because YOU are in the way.
Hilarious. You essentially use the same idiotic statement that somehow I haven't looked - when I explicitly told you that I had. The arrogance of the religious to tell me what I have done and seen.
I don't discount the possibility that there is a god. The problem is that I ...[text shortened]... ly possible that god exists, but is completely different than anything anyone has imagined.
You can try to imagine what God is like all you want, but you will never know Him until you get out of the way and come to God on His terms, not yours.
This is what I mean about "being in the way". You, as well as all others who resist God, fail to realise that you are not the center of the universe, and God isn't dancing on the head of a pin waiting for you to tell Him how to reveal Himself to you and the world.
Shut yourself up and hear Him for a change!
19 Sep 08
Originally posted by josephwWhat?? I don't and have NEVER thought that I am the center of the universe. NEVER have I thought or believed that.
[b]"It's entirely possible that god exists, but is completely different than anything anyone has imagined."
You can try to imagine what God is like all you want, but you will never know Him until you get out of the way and come to God on His terms, not yours.
This is what I mean about "being in the way". You, as well as all others who resist God, f ...[text shortened]... how to reveal Himself to you and the world.
Shut yourself up and hear Him for a change![/b]
When I did search for god I NEVER told him how to reveal himself and I did shut myself and try to hear him - all I heard was silence.
Yet more arrogance in you, who doesn't know me at all, telling ME what I am thinking and have thought!
21 Sep 08
Originally posted by PsychoPawnWell, if Jesus Christ, who is "The Life", isn't at the center of your universe, then who or what is?
What?? I don't and have NEVER thought that I am the center of the universe. NEVER have I thought or believed that.
When I did search for god I NEVER told him how to reveal himself and I did shut myself and try to hear him - all I heard was silence.
Yet more arrogance in you, who doesn't know me at all, telling ME what I am thinking and have thought!
Don't take everything I say so personally. I was speaking in general terms about that which prevents anyone from acknowledging God in their life.
Besides, you're not listening to me.
Let's go at this from another angle.
You will not find God no matter how hard you try. God is not lost.
You are lost. God is looking for you.
Now, before you go ape on me about what I just said, think about it for awhile.
You will absolutely have to come to Him on His terms.
Do you have a big problem with the Bible or something?
22 Sep 08
1 edit
Originally posted by josephwPsychoPawn is humorless.
Don't take everything I say so personally. I was speaking in general terms about that which prevents anyone from acknowledging God in their life.
Even so, his or her atheism, although arrogant, appears more reasonable than the blind faith that anyone that questions the existence of God just hasn't looked in the right places, or has a closed heart, or whatever it is you're trying to say.
One day, while reading a competent work of history, or maybe the great American novel on my parents' front porch--I was maybe sixteen or seventeen at the time--some "elders" who were maybe two, maybe three years older than me stopped their bicycles and asked me what I was reading. It turned out that they couldn't care the slightest about my book, but were looking to start a conversation that could segue into one about a book they wanted to give me.
The gist of the conversation was that if I would ask God to show me the truth, I would come to see that the gift book--a work partly plagiarized, partly bad history, and partly ? (I wouldn't learn these things for many years)--was the TRUTH. Well, I prayed as sincerely as my Catholic self would allow, and I found no peace giving any credibility to that odd book, even though it contained some remarkably interesting passages. Rather, one might say that the Lord led me further and further from that church rooted in errors that are almost symptomatic of some of the epistemes central to American thinking through the first half of the nineteenth century in America. Or, one might blame the public schools and public universities where I spent some 25 years or so occupying student desks.
Now, you probably have all sorts of reasons for rejecting the teaching of those "elders" that were barely old enough to shave, but I can assure you that I sought the answers through prayer and it led me away from them. This experience, and similar ones with similar assurances from others with divergent notions of "truth" led me not to the sort of atheism trumpeted by PsychoPawn and other like minded sorts, but to the recognition that there are certain things that I don't know--I call this view agnosticism. But not knowing the Truth (if there is even such a thing) does not mean that I am ignorant of error, and that includes 89.754 percent of what self-professing "Christians" have posted in these esteemed RHP forums during the nearly four years that I've been here reading them, not to mention a good bit of what's been put forth on the other side.
I may not know what is true, but I most certainly have learned to recognize what ain't.
BTW, I think gendered pronouns get in the way quite a bit. Given that God even as most dimly imagined cannot possibly suffer the limitations of testosterone induced blindness, "He" seems most inappropriate. If you won't use some sort of gender ambiguity to cover the limitations of Western European languages (s/he/it comes to mind as a viable alternative), then at least recognize that the generative powers of the feminine portion of the animal world, including such primates as humans, is closely akin to the attributes of CREATOR and use "she". While this recommendation does not necessarily lead us closer to discernible and verifiable truth, it at least has the virtue of carrying us a little ways from known and certain ERROR.
22 Sep 08
Originally posted by josephwWell, if Jesus Christ, who is "The Life", isn't at the center of your universe, then who or what is?
Well, if Jesus Christ, who is "The Life", isn't at the center of your universe, then who or what is?
Don't take everything I say so personally. I was speaking in general terms about that which prevents anyone from acknowledging God in their life.
Besides, you're not listening to me.
Let's go at this from another angle.
You will not find God no mat ...[text shortened]... ave to come to Him on His terms.
Do you have a big problem with the Bible or something?
I don't understand the question.
I was speaking in general terms about that which prevents anyone from acknowledging God in their life.
I assure you I'm not humorless as Wulebgr claims, but you definitely were referring to me.
I also assure you that when I was searching for god, I was not in the way.
You will not find God no matter how hard you try. God is not lost.
You are lost. God is looking for you.
You aren't making sense. So when devout christians told me to find god they were lying?
I'm here for god to find. I'm not hiding. If god can see all, then he should be able to see that.
You will absolutely have to come to Him on His terms.
These terms that you speak of, what are they? I get a different story from everyone it seems. I was told that if I honestly repented my sins and asked for god to come into my heart that I would feel god's presence.... I did all of that and no god.
Most people seem to put belief as a prerequisite for well, belief. Such as the advice I've received "Just read the bible and believe what is in there and then you'll see that god exists".
Of course if I read the bible and believed it then I'd believe in god! That's just saying if you believe in god then you'll believe in god.
Do you have a big problem with the Bible or something?
The problems I have with the bible are that it doesn't match reality. I.e. If the flood happened, why is it that the evidence we see doesn't fit with it having happened? That's just one thing also.
There's also the ridiculous laws that are contained in there that just don't make any real sense.
For example, the law that if you get into an argument with another man and your wife defends you by grabbing the genitalia of the other man then you have the right to chop off her hand. That is in the old testament. Do you not have a problem with this law?
22 Sep 08
Originally posted by WulebgrI'm not humorless. I didn't really get any joke he was saying though. It is hard to get jokes sometimes on forums though. I'm also often not as eloquent as I'd like to be (by a long stretch sometimes).
PsychoPawn is humorless.
Even so, his or her atheism, although arrogant, appears more reasonable than the blind faith that anyone that questions the existence of God just hasn't looked in the right places, or has a closed heart, or whatever it is you're trying to say.
One day, while reading a competent work of history, or maybe the great American novel ...[text shortened]... has the virtue of carrying us a little ways from known and certain ERROR.
I am not an arrogant person and I"m sorry if I came off that way.
I also do not intend to "trumpet atheism" - in fact I haven't been. You interpret questioning theism to trumpeting atheism? That's an interesting interpretation.
I submit that I don't think you truly know what 'sort' I am.
It is interesting to see where you are coming from though and I don't mean any offense by this post, I just don't think you really get who or what I am.
22 Sep 08
Originally posted by PsychoPawnIf you need some Big Red or Copenhagen to get your tongue into your cheek, might I recommend some tobacco? Me, I quit.
I'm not humorless. I didn't really get any joke he was saying though. It is hard to get jokes sometimes on forums though. I'm also often not as eloquent as I'd like to be (by a long stretch sometimes).
I am not an arrogant person and I"m sorry if I came off that way.
I also do not intend to "trumpet atheism" - in fact I haven't been. You interpret ...[text shortened]... mean any offense by this post, I just don't think you really get who or what I am.