31 Mar 07
Originally posted by josephwBut, see—that is a definition strictly from within the juridical paradigm. From within that paradigm, I would have no quarrel with your statement. But if sin has more to do with spiritual illness, and salvation with healing or curing (again, that is the root meaning), then your statement misses the mark...
Salvation means just one thing, technically speaking, and that is imputed righteousness.
And I'm sorry I missed your thread titled Authority when you started it. Maybe I can still get in on it.
So that is the first decision, in a sense...
And I'm sorry I missed your thread titled Authority when you started it. Maybe I can still get in on it.
You are always welcome; no apologies necessary. I am hoping it is a thread that I can sit back on for awhile, though, and see what responses come in. I’ll respond as I am able...
01 Apr 07
Originally posted by vistesdYou're a good man vistesd, but you're too smart for me. I envy your intellectual prowess.
But, see—that is a definition strictly from within the juridical paradigm. From within that paradigm, I would have no quarrel with your statement. But if sin has more to do with spiritual illness, and salvation with healing or curing (again, that is the root meaning), then your statement misses the mark...
So that is the first decision, in a sense...
...[text shortened]... n sit back on for awhile, though, and see what responses come in. I’ll respond as I am able...
Salvation is the remedy for the sin nature, wereas sanctification is the process we go through to reduce or eliminate it's effects.
Your thoughts!
01 Apr 07
Originally posted by josephwIf you are a Christian, there is no discrete point that you 'get saved.' It is a life-long process, a
Suppose you tell me then. How does one get saved, and where in the bible does it say it?
commitment to God through faith and the resultant works through grace. At any point, one may
fall profoundly off the path, may refuse the freely-given gift of grace.
So the question is meaningless, as already pointed out.
Nemesio
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01 Apr 07
Faith without works is dead because it wasn't faith in the first place. If I have faith or believe there is a million dollars buried in a specific location, I will do the works(act upon it), I go and dig it up, fervently.
On the other hand, Salvation" is a gift from God, lest anyone should boast. Now I have a catch 22 here, because if I have this free gift, I will also act on it in love and gratitude. If I don't, I probably did not receive the free gift, which is also by faith.
So, I think the gospels and Pauline epistles compliment one another.
01 Apr 07
Originally posted by NemesioInterestingly, Aristotle says much the same about eudaimonia. This is why translating 'eudaimonia' as 'flourishing' is better than translating it as 'happiness'. Happiness, as normally understood, is a transitory state, while it makes less sense to talk of a state of flourishing. We are to assess whole lives as eudaimon when they are lives manifesting activity not just in accord with but from virtue.
If you are a Christian, there is no discrete point that you 'get saved.' It is a life-long process, a
commitment to God through faith and the resultant works through grace. At any point, one may
fall profoundly off the path, may refuse the freely-given gift of grace.
So the question is meaningless, as already pointed out.
Nemesio
01 Apr 07
1 edit
Originally posted by josephwUnfortunately my thoughts on this are in process, since I started reading in the Eastern Orthodox literature. I might say that salvation is a remedy that takes time; as one gains in wellness, that is the process of sanctification. Again, Ware’s little book is pretty good, if you want an intro to the orthodox view.
You're a good man vistesd, but you're too smart for me. I envy your intellectual prowess.
Salvation is the remedy for the sin nature, wereas sanctification is the process we go through to reduce or eliminate it's effects.
Your thoughts!
EDIT: I just saw this by bbarr on another thread—
“That sort of persisting inner transformation just is salvation.”
01 Apr 07
Originally posted by KellyJayTwo Gospels give almost identical accounts. Luke has Pilate sending Jesus before Herod. John has Pilate and Jesus engaging in a somewhat extended discourse. If you are going to insist that the first two simply didn't bother to mention such important details, go ahead.
Matthew 27
Jesus before Pilate
11Now Jesus stood before the governor, and the governor questioned Him, saying, "Are You the King of the Jews?" And Jesus said to him, "It is as you say."
12And while He was being accused by the chief priests and elders, He did not answer.
13Then Pilate said to Him, "Do You not hear how many things they testify agains ...[text shortened]... n point
in the conversation regarding the charges being brought against him.
Kelly