29 Mar 06
1 edit
Originally posted by FreakyKBHHow bout this from the bible?:
Wait a tic. You were the one who was trying (pun intended) to burden the Big Three with the demand of death for all apostates. Whence cometh thou proof?
Let's not change horses in the middle of the stream, and shift the blame to communities of application. Either it is written and commanded in those writs, or it is not. Which way are you playing it?
THE PUNISHMENT FOR APOSTASY AS PROVIDED BY SHARI’A (LAW) IN THE BIBLE
42. Deuteronomy 17: 2 - 7 of the Bible: "If any one, whether man or woman, in any village through out your land violates your covenant with god by worshipping other God’s, the sun, moon or stars - which I have strictly forbidden - first check the rumour very carefully, if there is no doubt it is true, then that man or woman shall be taken outside the city and shall be stone to death. However put a man to death on the testimony of only one witness there must be two or three witness, the witness shall throw the first stones, and then all the people shall joint in this way you will purge all evil from among you."
Thats even worse than the Qu'ran, apparently there are no veses like this on in the Qu'ran, only later laws added giving the death penalty by men simply interpreting verses they think supports death for apostasy. I gather the Qu'ran basically says, if you leave our faith, don't expect us to invite you over for dinner, and you may be shunned, but not killed. Fundamentalists view it a bit differantly though.
29 Mar 06
Originally posted by sonhousedifferent time, different place. Jesus came and died... it changed.
How bout this from the bible?:
THE PUNISHMENT FOR APOSTASY AS PROVIDED BY SHARI’A (LAW) IN THE BIBLE
42. Deuteronomy 17: 2 - 7 of the Bible: "If any one, whether man or woman, in any village through out your land violates your covenant with god by worshipping other God’s, the sun, moon or stars - which I have strictly forbidden - first check the rumour ...[text shortened]... and you may be shunned, but not killed. Fundamentalists view it a bit differantly though.
29 Mar 06
Originally posted by KaboooombaSo the bible and qu'ran is a variable book, to be used as one sees fit?
different time, different place. Jesus came and died... it changed.
If the entire country all of a sudden for some insane reason becomes totally fundamentalist and uses that verse again to kill people who convert to scientology then its now ok again? And later if the fundamentalists are thrown out, now its not ok again?
29 Mar 06
Originally posted by sonhouseOh, my bad. I thought we were discussing apostasy, which is an abandonment of one's faith. This particular verse has nature worship in mind, replete with all of its detestable practices.
How bout this from the bible?:
THE PUNISHMENT FOR APOSTASY AS PROVIDED BY SHARI’A (LAW) IN THE BIBLE
42. Deuteronomy 17: 2 - 7 of the Bible: "If any one, whether man or woman, in any village through out your land violates your covenant with god by worshipping other God’s, the sun, moon or stars - which I have strictly forbidden - first check the rumour ...[text shortened]... and you may be shunned, but not killed. Fundamentalists view it a bit differantly though.
Got anything better than this?
30 Mar 06
Originally posted by FreakyKBHAre you accepting though that the death penalty for ones beliefs is acceptable in some circumstances?
Oh, my bad. I thought we were discussing apostasy, which is an abandonment of one's faith. This particular verse has nature worship in mind, replete with all of its detestable practices.
Got anything better than this?
30 Mar 06
Originally posted by KaboooombaIf the Christian God demanded the death penalty at one point in time then why do so many Christians act like muslims are somehow morally wrong or inferior to have a simmilar law? If it is merely a matter of time and place then what makes you feel that you are correct about the time and place?
different time, different place. Jesus came and died... it changed.
30 Mar 06
Originally posted by sonhouseit's people playing god by relating one situation to another thinking it justifies their actions. i think people who do things like this are sick oooo's.
So the bible and qu'ran is a variable book, to be used as one sees fit?
If the entire country all of a sudden for some insane reason becomes totally fundamentalist and uses that verse again to kill people who convert to scientology then its now ok again? And later if the fundamentalists are thrown out, now its not ok again?
30 Mar 06
Originally posted by twhiteheadin the old testament it talks about sacrificing animals for your sins. how many Christians do this?
If the Christian God demanded the death penalty at one point in time then why do so many Christians act like muslims are somehow morally wrong or inferior to have a simmilar law? If it is merely a matter of time and place then what makes you feel that you are correct about the time and place?
30 Mar 06
Originally posted by KaboooombaSo any Christian which agrees that the death penalty for apostacy was acceptable in the past (before Jesus), is implying that the fault of Muslims who believe that it is acceptable today is not one of fundamental rights or morals but rather one of faith ie they do not accept Jesus' specific teachings. Surely this means that you are not respecting thier freedom of religion?
different time, different place. Jesus came and died... it changed.
30 Mar 06
1 edit
Originally posted by twhiteheadcan you give me an example in the Bible?
So any Christian which agrees that the death penalty for apostacy was acceptable in the past (before Jesus), is implying that the fault of Muslims who believe that it is acceptable today is not one of fundamental rights or morals but rather one of faith ie they do not accept Jesus' specific teachings. Surely this means that you are not respecting thier freedom of religion?
edit: i get your point. it is a good one.
30 Mar 06
1 edit
Originally posted by KaboooombaAre you asking for examples of the death penalty?
can you give me an example in the Bible?
edit: i get your point. it is a good one.
Exodus 22:20 He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed. See also Numbers 25:1-15
Numbers 1:51 ...when the tabernacle is to be pitched, the Levites shall set it up: and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death. See also Numbers 3:10, 18:7 and 17:13.
Deuteronomy 13:1-10 states that a person who tries to convince an Israelite to convert to another religion must be killed.
Leviticus 20:27 calls for the execution by stoning of all mediums and spiritists (aka spiritualists), both male and female.
Exodus 22:18 states: Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
And lots lots more including for sexual offences, rudeness, cruelty to animals, blasphemy, perjury and even for working on the Sabbath !
Now if you accept these as being valid at the time then anyone practicing them today is only guilty of following a different religion from you.
30 Mar 06
The ignorance of Scripture here is appalling. If you are going to quote Scripture, at least know something of the isagogics involved. For the record, sonhouse's original argument was as follows:
Ok, so I assume you think its ok to kill someone who leaves one of the big three religions? Seems to be in the the Quran, and the bible,
old testement, you are required to kill someone who leaves those faiths.
While the death penalty applied to particular situations when Israel was governed in a theocracy, one of 'the big three,' Christianity, has never had such sanctions. Moreover, the death penalty did not apply as those here are attempting to apply it; it was intended for those who worshipped false gods specifically.
30 Mar 06
Originally posted by FreakyKBHSo to the dead person, this distinction makes a differance? That person is supposed to feel better now knowing he wasn't killed because he left the faith, merely for not worshipping Jesus?
The ignorance of Scripture here is appalling. If you are going to quote Scripture, at least know something of the isagogics involved. For the record, sonhouse's original argument was as follows:
[i]Ok, so I assume you think its ok to kill someone who leaves one of the big three religions? Seems to be in the the Quran, and the bible,
old testement, y ...[text shortened]... are attempting to apply it; it was intended for those who worshipped false gods specifically.