Christs parables

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
you are sick, get away from me, far, far away.

I am far, far away. But that will not save your soul or keep you from being tormented in Hellfire.

The Instructor

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
To what does Christ refer to and why?

He refers to the JWs being the wheat and the rest of us being the (annoying) tares. He does this so JWs can feel smug and superior (and awesome).

Originally posted by divegeester
He refers to the JWs being the wheat and the rest of us being the (annoying) tares. He does this so JWs can feel smug and superior (and awesome).

wow thats bitter, just cause you couldn't get into the Paradise club.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I am far, far away. But that will not save your soul or keep you from being tormented in Hellfire.

The Instructor

brilliant, i look forward to it, its gotta be warmer than Scotland.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
brilliant, i look forward to it, its gotta be warmer than Scotland.

Your reply is something I would expect from an atheist.

The Instructor

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
so what, it proves nothing.

It proves that you have no ground to insist upon the following which you wrote:

fire destroys, it does not torment persons eternally.

It proves exactly why the beast (antichrist) and the false prophet were still there burning in the lake of fire after 1,000 years in Revelation 20 when they are joined by the devil.

" And the devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where also the beast and the false prophet were. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." (Rev. 20:10)

"THEY" proves that they were still there from 1,000 years earlier (19:20) and will BE there burning forever and ever.

I don't need a posse. The pure word of God does the work.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
(, First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up, then go to gathering the wheat into my storehouse.’”

To what does Christ refer to and why?

Jehova's weeds?

Originally posted by sonship
It proves that you have no ground to insist upon the following which you wrote:

fire destroys, it does not torment persons eternally.

It proves exactly why the beast (antichrist) and the false prophet were [b]still there burning in the lake of fire after 1,000 years in Revelation 20 when they are joined by the devil.

" ere burning forever and ever.

I don't need a posse. The pure word of God does the work.

what a piece of nonsense, you introduce some supernatural clause to perpetuate your pagan doctrines and have made the loving and just God of the Bible out to be a torturer, what kind of twisted religion is that? death and hades are also cast into the lake of fire, proving that its entirely symbolic, why you fail to mention the fact is known only to you.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
what a piece of nonsense, you introduce some supernatural clause to perpetuate your pagan doctrines and have made the loving and just God of the Bible out to be a torturer, what kind of twisted religion is that? death and hades are also cast into the lake of fire, proving that its entirely symbolic, why you fail to mention the fact is known only to you.

You apparently have made your own God and your own religion - not the one we read about in the Holy Bible.

The instructor

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
what a piece of nonsense, you introduce some supernatural clause to perpetuate your pagan doctrines and have made the loving and just God of the Bible out to be a torturer, what kind of twisted religion is that? death and hades are also cast into the lake of fire, proving that its entirely symbolic, why you fail to mention the fact is known only to you.

what a piece of nonsense, you introduce some supernatural clause to perpetuate your pagan doctrines and have made the loving and just God of the Bible out to be a torturer, what kind of twisted religion is that? death and hades are also cast into the lake of fire, proving that its entirely symbolic, why you fail to mention the fact is known only to you.

You are simply not taking the words in the Bible as they are being given to you. Please tell me EXACTLY what are the words which constitute NONSENSE in these paragraphs -

Is this verse nonsense ? - "And the beast and was seized, and with him the false prophet, who in his presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and these two were cast alive into the lake of fire, which burns with brimstone." (Rev. 19:20)

Which part of that is your nonsense ?

That was 1,000 earlier than this event:

"And the devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where also the beast and the false prophet were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." (20:10)

Which part is nonsense ?
There may be aspects of the event which I do not fully understand as of yet. But the communication of the essentials is not nonsense to me at all.

And where then is the nonsense here?

"And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire." (vs.14,15)

There is no nonsense here. Probably for Satan to go into the lake of fire is for Death and Hades to go there. For he has the might of death (Heb.2:14) . It could mean that his going into the lake is death going into the lake as well as Hades which only exists because death exists.

It is not nonsense that Antichrist and the false prophet are tormented there for 1,000 years such that by the time they are joined by the Devil, they are apparently not reduced to non-existence. And it makes sense then that since they are still there being tormented it says -

" ... and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

The NONSENSE lies in all the feeble excuses you are dragging out here, dressing them up in some pseudo intellectualism in order to avoid the obvious being communicated by the word of God.

You do so at your own peril.

Originally posted by sonship
[quote] what a piece of nonsense, you introduce some supernatural clause to perpetuate your pagan doctrines and have made the loving and just God of the Bible out to be a torturer, what kind of twisted religion is that? death and hades are also cast into the lake of fire, proving that its entirely symbolic, why you fail to mention the fact is known only to y oid the obvious being communicated by the word of God.

You do so at your own peril.

You fear mongering reprobates you are making God out to be a monster. The dead are not conscious, its a Satanic lie that you do not die and some element survives death, the lake of fire is symbolic, death and hades are not literal entities that you can burn, you are talking nonsense. I have nothing to fear from God and I make it a sacred duty to instruct others also that God is not the monster that you portray him as.

Originally posted by RJHinds
You apparently have made your own God and your own religion - not the one we read about in the Holy Bible.

The instructor

You white washed grave.

You fear mongering reprobates you are making God out to be a monster. The dead are not conscious, its a Satanic lie that you do not die and some element survives death, the lake of fire is symbolic, death and hades are not literal entities that you can burn, you are talking nonsense. I have nothing to fear from God and I make it a sacred duty to instruct others also that God is not the monster that you portray him as.

I do not have a lot of time this morning.

But FEAR is sometime the APPROPRIATE response which the Holy Spirit is trying to derive from our hearts. I do not say that ALWAYS and ONLY fear should be had by people towards God.

But at times FEAR is exactly the appropriate reaction towards God. Jesus said "I will tell you WHO to fear ..." . Did He NOT ? Okay then.

Of course Jesus spoke of loving God and of God's love for the sinner. There is no argument about that. AT THE SAME TIME ... He ALSO taught us about the fear of God -

Luke 12:5 "But I will show you whom you should fear; fear Him who, after killing, has authority to cast into Gehenna; yes, I tell you, fear this One."

I reserve the right to fear God according to the teaching of my Lord.
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and you will not rob me of my pursuit of wisdom.

The fear of the Lord is clean:

The feare of the Lord is cleane, enduring for euer: the Iudgements of the Lord are true, and righteous altogether.
- King James Version (1611) - View 1611 Bible Scan

The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring forever; The judgments of the LORD are true; they are righteous altogether.
- New American Standard Version (1995)

The fear of Jehovah is clean, enduring for ever: The ordinances of Jehovah are true, `and' righteous altogether.
- American Standard Version (1901)

The fear of the Lord is clean, and has no end; the decisions of the Lord are true and full of righteousness.
- Basic English Bible

You are robbing people of divine wisdom.
It may be the case that the Apostle John says perfect love casts out fear.
But this only indicates perhaps my love is not perfected yet.
Even Paul said the apostles regarded the fear of the Lord:

2 Cor. 5:11 -

Therefore, knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade others. But what we are is known to God, and I hope it is known also to your conscience.

Originally posted by sonship
[quote]
You fear mongering reprobates you are making God out to be a monster. The dead are not conscious, its a Satanic lie that you do not die and some element survives death, the lake of fire is symbolic, death and hades are not literal entities that you can burn, you are talking nonsense. I have nothing to fear from God and I make it a sacred duty to in ...[text shortened]... ers. But what we are is known to God, and I hope it is known also to your conscience. [/b]

there is a difference between having a healthy respect for something and living in morbid fear, the Bible talks about fearing God in the sense of having a healthy respect for him, not a morbid fear of displeasing and being punished by him. On the contrary I am freeing people from fear and superstition.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
there is a difference between having a healthy respect for something and living in morbid fear, the Bible talks about fearing God in the sense of having a healthy respect for him, not a morbid fear of displeasing and being punished by him. On the contrary I am freeing people from fear and superstition.

there is a difference between having a healthy respect for something and living in morbid fear,

You assume then that the disciple who responds to this teaching is living in "morbid fear":

"But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him! "

My Lord Jesus says "I tell you, fear Him!". You complain that that is "morbid fear". That is just your opinion. He said what He said. He did not consult with the Watchtower to see if His statement would engender "morbid fear" or not.

the Bible talks about fearing God in the sense of having a healthy respect for him,

My Lord Jesus says "I tell you, fear Him!". He did not consult with the Watchtower to see if His statement measured up to their concept of "healthy respect" or not.

He is the Word become flesh and He simply said what He said.

not a morbid fear of displeasing and being punished by him. On the contrary I am freeing people from fear and superstition.

My Lord Jesus says "I tell you, fear Him!".

His word is there to His disciples. Obviously it concerns the possibility of "displeasing" God.

Obviously His word there concerns the fear of being "punished" by God.

Your noble sounding intention of freeing people from fear I would reject if
it levels false accusations against God. The serpent also told Eve that she should not be concerned with the prohibition to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

In essence the serpent also thought he was there to "free" man from the fear of God's governmental prohibition.

Any desire to "free" us from fear is suspect if it involves not taking the Lord Jesus at His word.

You don't remember how Jehovah asked Mariam and Aaron in the rebellion over the wife of Moses - How is it you were not AFRAID ...

Numbers 12:18 - With him I speak mouth to mouth, Even openly, and not in dark sayings, And he beholds the form of the LORD. Why then were you not afraid To speak against My servant, against Moses?"

You JWs love the Old Testament so you should reverence this passage.

And again Jehovah God said He would look towards the man who trembles at His word.

Isaiah 66:2 - says the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembles at my word.

When we talk about the love for God and the love of God we may focus on that. When we talk about the legitimate fear of God we may focus on that.

And in Luke 12:5 the intended and appropriate response of the disciple is fear. In many other portions of the word another response is appropriate.

As a matter of fact in the passage under discussion immediately after that fearful saying in verse 5 Jesus follows with a verse of utter comfort about God's preserving power through persecution. Look the sentences then together:

"But I will show you whom you should fear; fear Him who, after killing, has authority to cast into Gehenna; yes, I tell you, fear this One. (v.5)

Are not five sparrows sold for two assaria? And not one of them is forgotten before God. (v.6)

But even the hairs of your head have all been numbered. Do not be afraid; you are of more value than may sparrows." (v.7)

Therefore the over all teaching is that God ALONE is to be feared. This is comforting because God is so good. But He is righteous. So we should fear that we not be righteous.

The teaching taken in full context is not a source of "morbid fear." And it certainly has nothing to do with superstition.

And it is also significant, I think, that following this He warns His disciples never to be ashamed of Him. That is in the very next verses 8 and 9.

"Moreover, I tell you, Everyone who confesses in Me before men, the Son of Man will also confess him before the angels of God. (v.8)

But he who denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God." (v.9)

Do the Jehovah's Witnesses teach their pupils various ways to deny Jesus before men? If you are learning several clever ways that amount to really a denial of belief in the Lord Jesus, then you are being set up to be denied by Christ when He comes again.

Nor should you be ashamed of His words:

Luke 9:26 - " Whoever is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels. " NIV