Condemning divorce is not a moral stance

Originally posted by josephw
Marriage isn't merely a legal contract with contingencies and obligations. Marriage is a bond of love made in the heart between a man and a woman that cannot be broken, because it is unconditional.

Well, I understand that you are making these assertions, but I am curious as to how you apply them to real people living real lives. I will ask you the same question as I asked sonhouse: Take two people who have grown apart as they grew older - unhappy, incompatible, emotionally lonely; for them to divorce is "a condemnable thing"? How so?

Originally posted by josephw
[Marriage is] fundamental to the continuation of all societal institutions.

Why? How?

Originally posted by josephw
[Marriage is a bond of love made in the heart between a man and a woman that cannot be broken, because it is unconditional. It is the bedrock of all relationships. It's fundamental to the continuation of all societal institutions.

seriously with this? i'd like to know what you're smoking.

Originally posted by galveston75
In God's eyes, yes. Perhaps these two should have taken the Bible's advice and always put the other mate first and more importantly to have God in their marriage.

What if this hasn't worked?

Originally posted by FMF
Well, I understand that you are making these assertions, but I am curious as to how you apply them to real people living real lives. I will ask you the same question as I asked sonhouse: Take two people who have grown apart as they grew older - unhappy, incompatible, emotionally lonely; for them to divorce is "a condemnable thing"? How so?

If you held in your hand power to destroy all of life, would you use it? Would you unleash it if you knew it would break in two the bond that held life together?

Of course you will say no. You may not take marriage as seriously as that, but essentially, divorce is that power that breaks a bond that is not meant to be broken.

If two old people are so miserable with each other after years of marriage, then they have failed in their marriage. They have only themselves to blame. I would counsel against divorce. There is always a way.

What kind of people are we that we generate this kind of thing? What kind of world have we created that fosters the degeneration of relationships?

Originally posted by galveston75
If God is in ones marriage the chances of it going bad or very rare....

Has your life experience demonstrated this to be true? Really, I am more particularly interested in real people living real lives in the real world, as opposed to some hypothetical where the "presence" of a supernatural being, even one that is acknowledged by both parties, somehow overrides all the human realities in terms of personality, intellect, emotions and the existence of love between two real, and non-theoretical, individuals.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
seriously with this? i'd like to know what you're smoking.

Heck dude! I tear a page out of my Bible and role it up and smoke it.

Heavenly high!

Originally posted by josephw
If you held in your hand power to destroy all of life, would you use it? Would you unleash it if you knew it would break in two the bond that held life together?

Of course you will say no. You may not take marriage as seriously as that, but essentially, divorce is that power that breaks a bond that is not meant to be broken.

If two old people are so mi ...[text shortened]... ind of thing? What kind of world have we created that fosters the degeneration of relationships?

The real deal is religion wants to control people's lives, lives in the bedroom, marriage, and everything else about their daily lives like whether a woman has control over her own body. More examples of the suppression of women.

Originally posted by josephw
If you held in your hand power to destroy all of life, would you use it? Would you unleash it if you knew it would break in two the bond that held life together?

Do your seriously think this straw man/analogy is helpful to this discussion?

You may not take marriage as seriously as that, but essentially, divorce is that power that breaks a bond that is not meant to be broken.

What makes you think I don't take marriage seriously? You mean the "If you held in your hand power to destroy all of life..." thing? Well, if I had to split from my spouse in order to save all life on Earth, I would, of course. Wouldn't you? Under those circumstances, my spouse would agree to it, without doubt.

If two old people are so miserable with each other after years of marriage, then they have failed in their marriage.

I am not convinced that individuals growing apart should be seen as "failure"? I'd be interested to hear if, in your view, enduring being "miserable" a 'morally correct path'.

What kind of people are we that we generate this kind of thing? What kind of world have we created that fosters the degeneration of relationships?

I do not think "the degeneration of relationships" goes against human nature or cannot happen if people are acting in morally correct ways.

Originally posted by FMF
'Condemning divorce is not a moral stance.' Thoughts?

It's a moral stance. Just not one that I would take.

Originally posted by josephw
Heck dude! I tear a page out of my Bible and role it up and smoke it.

Heavenly high!

must have been a page from job. you gotta be careful with this stuff, it can rot your brain.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
It's a moral stance. Just not one that I would take.

If divorce can, to your way of thinking, be condemned from a moral point of view [although it's not a stance that you yourself would take], what exactly is the infringement and who exactly is the victim?

edit: an immoral act has to have a victim in some way, right?

Originally posted by josephw
If you held in your hand power to destroy all of life, would you use it? Would you unleash it if you knew it would break in two the bond that held life together?

Of course you will say no. You may not take marriage as seriously as that, but essentially, divorce is that power that breaks a bond that is not meant to be broken.

If two old people are so mi ...[text shortened]... ind of thing? What kind of world have we created that fosters the degeneration of relationships?

So marriage has nothing to do with love, it is simply a burden we have to bear for the sake of god and society.

Originally posted by FMF
If divorce can, to your way of thinking, be condemned from a moral point of view [although it's not a stance that you yourself would take], what exactly is the infringement and who exactly is the victim?

edit: an immoral act has to have a victim in some way, right?

There are different types of morality. One type deals with societies mores where society as a whole is seen as the victim. Thus it is immoral to walk around in the street naked, or immoral to have sex outside marriage even when there may be nobody seriously harmed by either action. Of course societies have these mores usually because they do see potential harm to people in at least some instances so they make a blanket rule.
Divorce can potentially harm the children, and one of the partners if they do not want a divorce - so a blanket rule is made. However there are of course situations where disallowing divorce may be harmful too.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Divorce can potentially harm the children, and one of the partners if they do not want a divorce - so a blanket rule is made. However there are of course situations where disallowing divorce may be harmful too.

So it's the harm to others that a divorce might do that is the moral issue rather than the divorce itself. Am I encapsulating what you are saying correctly?