20 Nov 22
@divegeester saidNo human parent, who is sane, would threaten their children for disobedience in the way God does in these verses. Our society would call it evil, and put such a parent in prison and place the child into a safe environment.
Deuteronomy 28 for reference.
1
If you fully obey the LORD your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the LORD your God will set you high above all the nations on earth.
2
All these blessings will come upon you and accompany you if you obey the LORD your God:
3
You will be blessed in the city and blessed in the country.
4
The fruit o ...[text shortened]... u will offer yourselves for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but no one will buy you.
20 Nov 22
@divegeester
You're not alone. Many have left the Church and still profess to being Christians. It's very post-modern.
20 Nov 22
@chaney3 saidWho’s to say it was actually God?
No human parent, who is sane, would threaten their children for disobedience in the way God does in these verses. Our society would call it evil, and put such a parent in prison and place the child into a safe environment.
- Perhaps it’s just made up stuff by people at the time as a means to scare the people into submission.
- maybe today it’s a blind acceptance Christian of what they have been told about the bible.
20 Nov 22
@moonbus saidVirtually every disagreement I have with Christians in this forum is either over stuff in the bible which is generally horrendous, or horrendous stuff which is incompatible with the key themes of the NT gospel or personal absolutist opinions about such things.
@divegeester
You're not alone. Many have left the Church and still profess to being Christians. It's very post-modern.
20 Nov 22
@divegeester saidI don't think it was God. It couldn't be.
Who’s to say it was actually God?
- Perhaps it’s just made up stuff by people at the time as a means to scare the people into submission.
- maybe today it’s a blind acceptance Christian of what they have been told about the bible.
But now comes the Bible debate, and that it was all God inspired. I doubt it.
@chaney3 saidI believe some of it, maybe a lot of it is. But my faith is not based on the bible nor my knowledge of it, nor is it undermined by my doubts or disagreements with it.
I don't think it was God. It couldn't be.
But now comes the Bible debate, and that it was all God inspired. I doubt it.
As I’ve said before, and have started threads about… on what are the claims about the bible being the complete and infallible word of God based? There is nothing substantive to base this on other than handed down tradition.
In fact in the bible god himself says that there will come a time when he will write his law on their (our) hearts.
Jeremiah 31:33 and repeated in the NT in Hebrews 10:16.
“This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”
It’s in good context in Hebrews 10 too.
20 Nov 22
@divegeester saidAgreed. And if you view the verses of Deuteronomy 28: 15-68, and the horrible threats (as an example), that God made, then how does Jesus tie into that? Whether one believes in a Trinity, or a Godhead, Jesus wasn't absent from the Old Testament.
I believe some of it, maybe a lot of it is. But my faith is not based on the bible nor my knowledge of it, nor is it undermined by my doubts or disagreements with it.
As I’ve said before, and have stated threads on, on what are the claims about the bible being the complete and infallible word of God based? There is nothing substantive to base this on other than handed ...[text shortened]... their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”[/b]
It’s in good context in Hebrews 10 too.
@chaney3 said“The Old Testament” is a made up word/ title for a collection of writings in the first half of a bigger book, nothing more.
Agreed. And if you view the verses of Deuteronomy 28: 15-68, and the horrible threats (as an example), that God made, then how does Jesus tie into that? Whether one believes in a Trinity, or a Godhead, Jesus wasn't absent from the Old Testament.
Yes the term “old testament” refers to the old covenant but that does not mean that everything in the collection of writings about it was inspired by God.
Now the likes of KellyJay and Jospehw will and have accused me of heresy but they cannot offer demonstrable evidence that everything written in these books is divinely inspired. It’s all taken on handed down tradition.
Jesus was executed by the Romans for the rime of sedition, but the reason the Pharisees handed him over was for heresy and stirring up revolt against the religious status quo.
I wonder if in another culture I would be handed over to the Romans by KellyJay and Jospehw for stirring up revolt against the religious status quo.
@divegeester saida. Not everything that is Christianity is in the Bible. There is a very rich tradition of Christian faith which goes on outside the sacred writings, 'Wherever people are gathered in his name..."
I believe some of it, maybe a lot of it is. But my faith is not based on the bible nor my knowledge of it, nor is it undermined by my doubts or disagreements with it.
As I’ve said before, and have started threads about… on what are the claims about the bible being the complete and infallible word of God based? There is nothing substantive to base this on other than ha ...[text shortened]... their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”[/b]
It’s in good context in Hebrews 10 too.
b.The Bible is merely a snapshot in time, frozen at, and by, the Council of Nicea in 325 AD.
c. Take notice of the account in the NT of the Roman centurion who approaches Jesus and asks a favor, to heal his servant. Jesus replies, 'go, your faith healed him.' Not, 'I Jesus, have healed him', but YOU, the pagan centurion, in your pagan faith, have healed him. We may assume that the centurion had never read any Jewish scripture, and no NT scrolls existed at that time. This confirms what Rajk has said many times here, that belief in doctrines is not the essence of what Jesus taught; the essence is to love one's neighbour as oneself and act accordingly. The centurion asks a favor not for himself, but FOR someone of markedly lower social status than himself, that is, the centurion humbles himself, and he asks the favor OF someone of markedly lower social status than himself, again an act of humility.
20 Nov 22
@divegeester saidThanks for posting this.
Deuteronomy 28 for reference.
1
If you fully obey the LORD your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the LORD your God will set you high above all the nations on earth.
2
All these blessings will come upon you and accompany you if you obey the LORD your God:
3
You will be blessed in the city and blessed in the country.
4
The fruit o ...[text shortened]... u will offer yourselves for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but no one will buy you.
I challenge anyone to read verses 15-68, really read them, and tell me that's God. The same God who supposedly loves us.
If you believe God said this, then you also believe that Jesus is in agreement with it.
20 Nov 22
@chaney3 saidGrasping the universe as God does means what is good and evil He comprehends
No human parent, who is sane, would threaten their children for disobedience in the way God does in these verses. Our society would call it evil, and put such a parent in prison and place the child into a safe environment.
in ways we do not. God is not like us, each of us owes our very being to God! There
is nothing that doesn't owe its very being to God, apart from His making everything
there isn't anything not made for His good pleasure. God stands alone in the
universe, the prime reality to which everything owes its very being to God.
To compare Him to us is not wise.
20 Nov 22
@chaney3 saidKellyJay, you either:
Thanks for posting this.
I challenge anyone to read verses 15-68, really read them, and tell me that's God. The same God who supposedly loves us.
If you believe God said this, then you also believe that Jesus is in agreement with it.
Did NOT read the verses.
You did read the verses, and will never say anything bad about God, no matter how vulgar the text is.
(It's okay to doubt the validity of what appears to be man-made writings)
20 Nov 22
@chaney3 saidWell that is the point you were making wasn't it, are the scriptures from God or
KellyJay, you either:
Did NOT read the verses.
You did read the verses, and will never say anything bad about God, no matter how vulgar the text is.
(It's okay to doubt the validity of what appears to be man-made writings)
man? From God, everything I said applies, if from man, then who cares what it
says?
The thing you really do need to grasp is good and evil, God is totally good and we
are not, that puts us in a bad place with God and considering what God's goal was
when He created us, to be made in His image, that bar is high for a cause! God is
planning ahead for an eternal purpose, we don't even map our days by the hour
from time to time and follow through.
There are limits we put up with as well even with our own children, and because of
that you think God, who doesn't share our limitations and shortcomings should
make our standards His, or would it be better to make His, ours?
20 Nov 22
@kellyjay said"God is totally good"....... your words.
Well that is the point you were making wasn't it, are the scriptures from God or
man? From God, everything I said applies, if from man, then who cares what it
says?
The thing you really do need to grasp is good and evil, God is totally good and we
are not, that puts us in a bad place with God and considering what God's goal was
when He created us, to be made in His im ...[text shortened]... imitations and shortcomings should
make our standards His, or would it be better to make His, ours?
There's nothing good in the verses of Deuteronomy 28:15-68. As a matter of fact, it's all evil.