Originally posted by robbie carrobiewoman gets stoned for adultery.
oh great and illustrious bad ol putty cat, are you aware that the bible in the time of the Jews had an excellent and far superior judicial system to what passes for justice today? for example the rights of mothers and unborn children were protected, and any thief would have to make reparation four times for anything he stole? this and many other inc ...[text shortened]... ur sublime presence, i will now snivel away, eyes downwards...shuffle shuffle...grovel...grovel!
thumbs up robbieism!
to the heathens and heretics on RHP:
contact your local robbieist priest for a chance to be converted! you could be one of the saved as well while all the rest roast in the lake of fire.
Originally posted by twhiteheada very wrong and i have to say Whitey, an unusually ignorant statement coming from you. i am surprised. For example, what is the decree of Islam for stealing? that's correct, you get your hand chopped off with the greatest severity! Now what was the decree from God as recorded in the noble Word of God, the Bible? let us look at a passage, shall we!
And yet when Muslims practice a very similar system today they are condemned as barbaric.
“In case a man should steal a bull or a sheep and he does slaughter it or sell it, he is to compensate with five of the herd for the bull and four of the flock for the sheep. (“If a thief should be found in the act of breaking in and he does get struck and die, there is no bloodguilt for him. If the sun has shone forth upon him, there is bloodguilt for him.)
“He is to make compensation without fail. If he has nothing, then he must be sold for the things he stole. If there should be unmistakably found in his hand what was stolen, from bull to ass and to sheep, alive, he is to make double compensation.
“If a man causes a field or a vineyard to be grazed over and he does send out his beasts of burden and cause a consuming in another field, he is to make compensation with the best of his own field or with the best of his own vineyard.
“In case a fire should spread out and it does catch thorns, and sheaves or standing grain or a field gets consumed, the one who started the fire is to make compensation without fail [for what was burned].
Exodus 22:1-6
Now one can clearly see, that in the case of stealing, reparation must be made. if the thief cannot pay, then he must be forced to do labour until the value of the things stolen are paid, in some instances, double or fourthfold. this not only served as a deterrent, but provided for the rehabilitation of the individual, to make good, also it freed the state from the obligation, expense and burden for looking after the criminal, which is clearly superior in every way to the modern practice of incarceration, and makes Islam look truly barbaric.
your comments are appreciated - regards Robbie.
Originally posted by Zahlanzioh well, at least you are talking to me now, we shall no doubt discuss some of these judicial decisions, and more accurately it was not only the women, adultery was a capital offense for both parties involved.
woman gets stoned for adultery.
thumbs up robbieism!
to the heathens and heretics on RHP:
contact your local robbieist priest for a chance to be converted! you could be one of the saved as well while all the rest roast in the lake of fire.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieand the point flew right by you. does the fact that your far superior judicial system kills people in horrible agony upset your argument in any way?
oh well, at least you are talking to me now, we shall no doubt discuss some of these judicial decisions, and more accurately it was not only the women, adultery was a capital offense for both parties involved.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWe can look all you like so long as your looking is not selective.
a very wrong and i have to say Whitey, an unusually ignorant statement coming from you. i am surprised. For example, what is the decree of Islam for stealing? that's correct, you get your hand chopped off with the greatest severity! Now what was the decree from God as recorded in the noble Word of God, the Bible? let us look at a passage, shall we!
When Jesus was confronted with the stoning of an adulterer he did not say "this is against the law", nor did he say "this is not in the Bible".
Yet Rajk999 condemns Muslims for having the exact same law.
Originally posted by twhiteheaddo you agree that the subscribed punishment for stealing as recorded in scripture and quoted is clearly different from that as espoused by Islam and is clearly superior to the modern practice of incarceration?. i have great respect for Rajk999, but i do not know where this idea that the two laws are synonymous originates from?
We can look all you like so long as your looking is not selective.
When Jesus was confronted with the stoning of an adulterer he did not say "this is against the law", nor did he say "this is not in the Bible".
Yet Rajk999 condemns Muslims for having the exact same law.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieclearly superior? if a person steals 10 times 10 dollars and is only caught 1 time? out of the 100 dollar "earnings" he must pay 40. which still leaves him some profit. is it enough? is it just? he doesn't get punished for being a thief, he simply pays a tax for being a thief, tax that only is applied when caught.
do you agree that the subscribed punishment for stealing as recorded in scripture and quoted is clearly different from that as espoused by Islam and is clearly superior to the modern practice of incarceration?. i have great respect for Rajk999, but i do not know where this idea that the two laws are synonymous originates from?
how is your vastly superior legal system now?
Originally posted by Zahlanziyou yourself in your statement have established its superiority, for it is relative to what we have now. using your own analogy, in the modern context, if a person steals 10 times 10 and is caught, what happens? he goes to the police which costs money, he is incarcerated, which costs money, he goes to a lawyer which costs money, her goes before a judiciary which costs money, he is fined, if he is unable to pay, its costs money, therefore let us itemize the details
clearly superior? if a person steals 10 times 10 dollars and is only caught 1 time? out of the 100 dollar "earnings" he must pay 40. which still leaves him some profit. is it enough? is it just? he doesn't get punished for being a thief, he simply pays a tax for being a thief, tax that only is applied when caught.
how is your vastly superior legal system now?[/b
gross income from stealing
thief $100
cost of incarceration and stealing
police time 2 hours in apprehension @20 dollars per hour x2(there are always two policemen together) = $80
cost of initial incarceration, food lighting heating etc $10
cost of lawyer for soliciting the case (if he needs to steal 10 dollars we assume he must get state legal aid, lawyers in the UK can charge a maximum of 122 pounds per hour) = $300 for entirety
cost of judiciary, (who knows what a judge gets paid, so we shall be conservative and say $300) = $300
if he is incarcerated for thirty days @30 days @$10 per day = $300
total cost of apprehension and prosecution of case almost $1000 for a $100 dollar crime, where if he was caught in bible times it would have cost only $60
what have you to say for yourself now?
Originally posted by ZahlanziYou may want to read the story of David in the OT. Here we have a king who commits adultery and then murders her husband. Once confronted by God of his sin he immediatly repents and is forgiven yet there remains a price to pay and he pays for it dearly.
"No matter the sin, God can forgive. The only unpardoned sin is the sin of rejecting Christ as savior,"
child rapist and criminal, with 10+ victims under the age of 9, asks for god's forgiveness (just before frying in the electric chair) for being an animal(hope the animals will forgive me) and gets forgiven because no matter the sin, god ca forgive.
...[text shortened]... usands. he gets thrown in the pit of eternal agony.
thumbs up, robbieism and dystoniacims!
Originally posted by robbie carrobieit was on the text you horrible excuse for a person. you make claims that have no logic whatsoever and when someone points that out you reply something idiotic and prolong the discussion until nobody would figure out what the question was without going back 5 pages of posts to see.
comment on the text first Zahlanzi, we shall address these issues in good time!
your claim: that legal system is far greater than this.
my claim: that legal system kills people in brutal and barbaric agony(getting beaten to death by rocks is not so fun) for minor offenses like adultery while allowing thieves to walk if they can buy their way out.
my arguments: a person shall pay x times what he stole. does that mean a man stealing bread for his children will go to jail and the millionaire caught stealing 100 thousand dollars shall walk because he can afford to pay the x*100 thousand get out of jail card. is that just?
Originally posted by whodeyand your point is? one is forgiven after he pays the price? you may want to read my post again. the child rapist is forgiven and he pays for it dearly with the electric chair. so he goes to heaven. the muslim doctor needs to be forgiven for what exactly? not calling god? is he worse than the lowlife that said "gee god, i am sorry for all the small children i killed, can you please forgive me? I am really sorry." ?
You may want to read the story of David in the OT. Here we have a king who commits adultery and then murders her husband. Once confronted by God of his sin he immediatly repents and is forgiven yet there remains a price to pay and he pays for it dearly.
i am all for forgiveness. yes, one can be forgiven if he feels sorry. and the muslim or atheist doctor shall feel very sorry when confronted with god after they die. and they to must be forgiven. because if a murderer will go to heaven and the doctor that saved more children than the murderer killed, then satan is as good as god to whorship. or the flying spagetti monster. i would refuse to go to heaven if it would mean sharing the swimming pool with a murderer while a muslim or buddhist who never hurts anyone screams in agony in hell.
your god is a monster. i think my god is slightly better and closer to how a supreme being should behave. your god is closer to a mean and vengeful spoiled brat. of course you may not think like i think you think(i think you think like robbie), in which case i apologize.
Originally posted by ZahlanziLol, its good to see you're feeling like yourself again, ah that same ol vitriolic criticism with its basis firmly set in pure acidic arrogance, 'aye ye canny whack it wi a big stick', Zapansy, i was worried you were becoming soft and considerate in your old age.
it was on the text you horrible excuse for a person. you make claims that have no logic whatsoever and when someone points that out you reply something idiotic and prolong the discussion until nobody would figure out what the question was without going back 5 pages of posts to see.
your claim: that legal system is far greater than this.
my claim: that ...[text shortened]... s shall walk because he can afford to pay the x*100 thousand get out of jail card. is that just?
But your reasoning seems unfounded, adultery was not a minor offense, it was a capital offense, the participants knew of the consequences, but we shall get to that soon enough, but in the meantime if you could leave off your rage, just for the moment, it may be beneficial!
Now you do raise an interesting question although the illustration that you give is ill fitting for there was no provision made for incarceration, originally in the Law, for the superiority of the Law was that reparation had to be made whether you were rich or poor, which as i have already shown is vastly superior in every way, now to the point that you make, is it legitimate for a person in the most dire of circumstances to steal in order to feed his family, in other words does poverty justify stealing? Again owing to the superiority of the law, this would not occur, why not? because provision was made within the law for the poor, that is why!
'People do not despise a thief just because he commits thievery to fill his soul when he is hungry. But, when found, he will make it good with seven times as much; all the valuables of his house he will give.' - proverbs 6:30-31
notice that while the thief who steals because of hunger may not be as reprehensible as one who steals out of greed or with an intent to cause harm to his victim, those desiring Gods approval should not be guilty of any kind of thievery
now to the provisions under the law!
It was not Gods purpose that any of the Israelites suffer poverty. The nation was given an inheritance of land. (Nu 34:2-12) All Israelite families, with the exception of the Levites, who received a tenth of the produce of the land for their service at the sanctuary, shared in that inheritance and therefore had a means of supporting themselves. (Nu 18:20, 21) Landholdings were secure. Laws of inheritance ensured that the land would continue to be held by the family or tribe to which it belonged. (Nu 27:7-11, 36:6-9, De 21:15-17) It could not be sold in perpetuity. (Le 25:23) In the Jubilee year all hereditary lands that had been sold were restored to their rightful owners. (Le 25:13) Thus even if a man squandered his substance, the inheritance could not be forever lost to his posterity.
Faithful adherence to Gods law would largely have prevented poverty among the Israelites. (De 15:4, 5) Individuals, because of being lazy (Pr 6:10, 11, 10:4, 19:15, 20:13, 24:30-34), drunkards, gluttons (Pr 23:21), or pleasure-seekers (Pr 21:17), could bring poverty on themselves and their families. Then, too, unforeseen circumstances might arise that could plunge persons into poverty. Death could leave behind orphans and widows. Accidents and sickness could temporarily or permanently hinder a person from performing necessary work.
The Law, however, did much to make it easier for the poor to cope with their situation. During the harvest they had the right to glean in the fields, orchards, and vineyards and, therefore, did not have to beg for bread or resort to stealing. (Le 19:9, 10, 23:22, De 24:19-21) A needy Israelite could borrow money without having to pay interest, and a spirit of generosity was to be shown toward him. (Ex 22:25, Le 25:35-37, De 15:7-10) To build up his financial resources, he could sell his land or sell himself into servitude, on a temporary basis. (Le 25:25-28, 39-54) So as not to put a hardship on the poor, the Law permitted them to present less valuable offerings at the sanctuary. Le 12:8, 14:21, 22, 27:8.
Gods law prescribed equal justice for rich and poor alike, not favoring either one because of his position. (Ex 23:3, 6, Le 19:15) But as the nation of Israel lapsed into unfaithfulness, the poor suffered much oppression, never the less provision was made, and is it not beautiful to behold?
Now what have you to say for yourself great and illustrious bad ol putty cat?
Originally posted by robbie carrobiestoning. for adultery. by the mob.
Lol, its good to see you're feeling like yourself again, ah that same ol vitriolic criticism with its basis firmly set in pure acidic arrogance, 'aye ye canny whack it wi a big stick', Zapansy, i was worried you were becoming soft and considerate in your old age.
But your reasoning seems unfounded, adultery was not a minor offense, it was a capita ...[text shortened]... to behold?
Now what have you to say for yourself great and illustrious bad ol putty cat?
good scenario
rocks -> fly -> someones head -> pain -> death
bad scenario
rocks -> fly -> someones leg, shoulder, rib cage, etc. -> lots of pain -> repeat from rocks. death occurs when either a good scenario happens or enough of the bad scenario happens that the victim bleeds enough so death occurs.
is that explanation of stoning dumbed down enough so you could understand? because i could draw a stick figure and some rocks flying towards it and upload it somewhere.
are you going to answer that or are you going to keep saying the good stuff about that legal system and "we shall get to that[the nasty stuff like stoning] soon enough". because only retards would think good stuff didn't exist in that time. i could find nice things in hitler's germany too if i look hard enough.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSo can you explain how a justice system in which adultery is a capital offense is superior to our modern day justice system in South Africa where adultery is not a capital offense(its not even a criminal offense).
But your reasoning seems unfounded, adultery was not a minor offense, it was a capital offense, the participants knew of the consequences, but we shall get to that soon enough, but in the meantime if you could leave off your rage, just for the moment, it may be beneficial!