death

Originally posted by twhitehead
Information is a first-step abstraction of the pattern formed by matter. Since it is an abstraction, information does not actually exist. If two computers store the same information then we have two sets of physical entities, but the abstract information is the same.

We view the mind in an abstract way, just like we do with information. Thus, one would ...[text shortened]... it being copied etc.
The mind is an abstract version of the physical interactions in the brain.

How can something that "does not actually exist" be "stored" or transferable? Information may be a representation of something else, but this is immaterial to the issue of its own existence.

Originally posted by Palynka
How can something that "does not actually exist" be "stored" or transferable? Information may be a representation of something else, but this is immaterial to the issue of its own existence.

Is it possible that we actually use the word in different ways, both in referring to a concrete instance and also to the abstract?
Or is it that when I say a computer has stored the number 2, that I mean the computer has a concrete instance of the abstract number 2?
Do you think that the number 2 exists?
Is the number 2 storable or transferable?

If I say I am 'happy' then I am talking about an abstract representation of a concrete pattern formed in my brain. But does happiness itself exist?

Originally posted by twhitehead
Is it possible that we actually use the word in different ways, both in referring to a concrete instance and also to the abstract?
Or is it that when I say a computer has stored the number 2, that I mean the computer has a concrete instance of the abstract number 2?
Do you think that the number 2 exists?
Is the number 2 storable or transferable?

If ract representation of a concrete pattern formed in my brain. But does happiness itself exist?

Is it possible that we actually use the word in different ways, both in referring to a concrete instance and also to the abstract?
What I am saying is that abstract things may exist in an abstract form, as long as there is the possibility of a physical support or them matching a physical pattern.

Or is it that when I say a computer has stored the number 2, that I mean the computer has a concrete instance of the abstract number 2?
I don't know really what you mean by a computer having stored the number 2. If it has it saved the number into a file in its hard drive, then yes. If it is currently in live memory, then also yes. The way the computer encodes it is irrelevant.

Do you think that the number 2 exists?
Is the number 2 storable or transferable?
Of course. It exists as part of a language code. It contains no information by itself beyond the meaning of the code, so that it doesn't share the properties of information is again irrelevant. This is different from the abstract entities like information which are not only the code, but also can be decoded into more than the code itself.

If I say I am 'happy' then I am talking about an abstract representation of a concrete pattern formed in my brain. But does happiness itself exist?
Yes. It is the set of such patterns. The word 'happiness' refers to the presence a certain state of mind, the pattern if you will. As long as such states of mind CAN exist, then happiness exists. This does not preclude the fact that it is a relative AND an abstract concept.

You're confusing language, the code, with what it represents. Abstractions can exist regardless of a constant and unique physical support. Happiness exists as long as someone is capable of feeling happy.