Did Jesus and Paul understand atheism?

@philokalia said
What, you suddenly don't have the stomach for the topic and would prefer to play me off of other Christians?

It's the ideology of "other Christians" that is the issue, not my "stomach" with regard to making their case for them in the face of your dissent.

@fmf said
Take up the ideology of non-Christians being tortured with the Christians who espouse the ideology. I am not going to explain it or defend it. Don't use an atheist as a proxy in your ideological disagreements.

This is rich...

You brought up the topic of hell and now you are complaining that I am not trying to argue with Christians who did not bring up the topic about hell...

Why did you bring up hell if you didn't want me to put forward my discussion points, beliefs, and arguments on it?

You are afraid to debate the topic?

@philokalia said
... and you claim this is all a secretive process.

If non-believers are being tortured, where is the evidence? If it's happening and no information is getting 'back to Earth' about it, so that non-believers can learn about it, the torturing clearly being kept secret. You see, such psychological nonsense: it's a weak manmade groupist concept.

@philokalia said
Why did you bring up hell if you didn't want me to put forward my discussion points, beliefs, and arguments on it?

If you don't think non-Christians and non-believers are tortured in burning flames for eternity, either...

[1] take it up with Christians who do, or...

[2] don't worry about it. If, like me, you believe that non-Christians and non-believers being tortured in burning flames for eternity for not believing in Jesus is moral and logical nonsense, then we agree. If we agree, then you have a third option which is...

[3] accept and acknowledge that we agree.

@philokalia said
You are saying that since we do not have empirical evidence to convince everyone beyond a shadow of a doubt we are full of hot air, but you should be aware that the teacher would not be a teacher if he had the students take the test with all the answers on a sheet next to them as opposed to encouraging them to actually learn the right way.

The torturer god ideology seems to be rooted in the idea that if one is not superstitious in pretty much exactly the same way as torturer god Christians are superstitious, then it is "morally perfect" for the people that have other forms or traditions of superstition or have no superstitions at all to be tortured. For eternity. As an act of revenge. As I say, it sounds ill-thought-out, parochial and manmade.

@philokalia said
So, us Christians on this website should pray that you are given the signs that you need to come to God and have a spiritual moment.

I am not interested in what you pray about. I am interested in the moral incoherence of Christians' notion of Hell/torture/burning flames/eternity and the assertions they make attendant thereto.

@philokalia said
I do not understand the "secret" clause.

Why would the torture of deceased non-believers be kept secret from non-believers who are still alive? And what would be the moral or psychological purpose of torturing non-believers if their lack of belief was sincere and honest and torturing them creates no 'lessons learned', no correction of behaviour or belief, and no deterrent?

@fmf said
Why would the torture of deceased non-believers be kept secret from non-believers who are still alive? And what would be the moral or psychological purpose of torturing non-believers if their lack of belief was sincere and honest and torturing them creates no 'lessons learned', no correction of behaviour or belief, and no deterrent?

Why do you believe people are going to be judged on what they don’t know?

@kellyjay said
Why do you believe people are going to be judged on what they don’t know?

What does "know" and "don't know" mean in your question?

I "know" about Dasa's cockroach threat as a form of 'judgement' handed down by his god or gods, but it's of no consequence and has no practical reality as a threat or caution or warning if I don't believe it.

Try posing a more coherent question: perhaps use an example.

Take my Muslim neighbour who was standing in my kitchen not half an hour ago. What does he "know" and what does he "not know" about your God and what does it mean in terms of how he will be "judged" according to your ideology?

@fmf said
What does "know" and "don't know" mean in your question? I "know" about

Dasa's cockroach threat as a form of 'judgement' handed down by his god or gods, but it's of no consequence and has no practical reality as a threat or caution or warning if I don't believe it.

Try posing a more coherent question: perhaps use an example.

Take my Muslim neighbour who was standing i ...[text shortened]... about your God and what does it mean in terms of how he will be "judged" according to your ideology?

Really, you have to have what the words, “what you know” explained to you, you don’t know what they mean?

@kellyjay said
Really, you have to have what the words, “what you know” explained to you, you don’t know what they mean?

I know what those words can mean and I know that they can mean different things. So, you need to explain the meaning of "don't know" and also "know" YOU intend in the context of this question: Why do you believe people are going to be judged on what they don’t know? And I suggest you use someone like my Muslim neighbour ~ along with what you think he "knows" and doesn't know" ~ as an example to make what you are asking me really clear and unambiguous.

@fmf said
I know what those words can mean and I know that they can mean different things. So, you need to explain the meaning of "don't know" and also "know" YOU intend in the context of this question: Why do you believe people are going to be judged on what they don’t know? And I suggest you use someone like my Muslim neighbour ~ along with what you think he "knows" and doesn't know" ~ as an example to make what you are asking me really clear and unambiguous.

If my intentions were anything other than the normal usage I would let you know. Should I question every word you say, asking for clarification to understand you, or take what you say on face value until I think we have a failure of communication? Do you get confused with everything said to you by everyone or a select few?

If you require a paragraph of explanation for each thought expressed to you I doubt you understand anyone.

If you know something is true and declare it so, you will have no excuse to plead innocence, if you claim you don’t know something and your words and deeds reveal this to be true you are innocent, if you declare truth or deny a truth and you by your words and deeds show otherwise you will be guilty.

Truth is a big deal!

@kellyjay said
If my intentions were anything other than the normal usage I would let you know. Should I question every word you say, asking for clarification to understand you, or take what you say on face value until I think we have a failure of communication? Do you get confused with everything said to you by everyone or a select few?

If you require a paragraph of explanation for eac ...[text shortened]... y a truth and you by your words and deeds show otherwise you will be guilty.

Truth is a big deal!

What do you mean exactly by the words "know" and "don't know" in the question you asked?

@fmf said
Why would the torture of deceased non-believers be kept secret from non-believers who are still alive? And what would be the moral or psychological purpose of torturing non-believers if their lack of belief was sincere and honest and torturing them creates no 'lessons learned', no correction of behaviour or belief, and no deterrent?

So you DO want to discuss this suddenly?

It's just that you want to discuss it only on your terms and ignore all of my other contributions, and keep trying to get me to argue with Christians?

@philokalia said
So you DO want to discuss this suddenly?

It's just that you want to discuss it only on your terms and ignore all of my other contributions, and keep trying to get me to argue with Christians?

He doesn't want to discuss anything, "What do you mean..." just endless questions.